*opens DVR*
*casually surfs to GAME OF THRONES*
*selects ‘cancel series’*
*shudders with a sigh of relief*
I’m sorry, Game of Thrones, but I gotta go.
I know, I know. This is an obvious, almost obligatory post after one of the soul-wrecking finales of your show — the post-episode karate-kicking-over-your-television-while-weeping-uncontrollably demonstration. I’m the cartoon office dude flinging his office papers in the air while being all like FUCK THIS SHIT. I’m like that cat who is so done he won’t stop pawing shit off the table. And of course the expectation is, eventually the trauma will recede out to sea and next year I’ll once again tune in like a junkie to see what wacky shenanigans Tyrion is up to.
I’ve been there before, certainly. Where I was thisclose to being done with you, GoT.
And then I come crawling back. Every year.
But not this time, I’m afraid.
(I know, some of you are breathing your own sighs of relief: OH THANK A HOT SACK OF MOIST FUCKERY HE’S DONE WITH THIS SHOW NOW HE CAN COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE FOR A WHILE. I hear you. I’m sorry for duct-taping you to a chair and yelling all my complaints at you. I learned it by watching you, Ramsay Snowbolton!)
It’s not you, Game of Thrones.
It’s me.
I just spent all weekend in a hospital — my mother took ill and so we buckled her into the Healthcare Express and took her on a ride through the inefficacy and poor communication of the hospital system, and while there you witness even at a distance human suffering with the volume turned way up. Next door was a man who coughed so hard and so loud and so wetly you’d think he was hacking up four soggy cats. Another woman had chronic diverticulitis — a manageable disease, but one that earned her a stay in the hospital for a week with no food. In the ER was a young girl (presumably on drugs) freaking the unholy fuck out — weeping and struggling and fighting — just to see her mother. People in hospitals aren’t there because they’re healthy or happy or just having a laugh. It’s pain all the way down.
And I need to watch some television shows that aren’t all about that. (Or, when they are about pain, they deal with that pain honestly and earnestly and not only as spectacle. The Leftovers is dreary as fuck but it looks long into the eyes of that suffering to try to understand it and to help you understand it, too.)
Like I said: it’s me, not you.
I watched last night with none of the shock I was supposed to feel at the series of deaths that it presented to us, and I felt only general queasiness and fatigue. I felt like I was making a face the whole time, a face like I had repeatedly been made to lick a lollipop that had someone else’s pubic hair glued to it with sugar glaze. I just started to feel like, why am I doing this? Why am I licking this pubic hair lolly? What’s wrong with me?
It’s not that it’s a bad show. To the contrary — it’s often amazing! It sets up these killer moments. It tells a sweeping tale with a confident hand. Some of the characters (though increasingly fewer and fewer for me) are great, complex, funny, tragic, compelling from snout to tail.
But I gotta quit, man. I gotta tap out. I just can’t do it anymore.
Here, in particular, are three areas where the show loses me. It takes these three things and for me, fails to treat them in a way that I can really understand or get behind —
*oh, and here there be spoilers*
…
*no really, spoilers*
…
*hey no, not kidding, back out now*
…
*WON’T YOU TAKE ME TO… SPOILERTOWN?*
1. Women
Obviously, I’ve spoken on this subject before — (We Are Not Things: Mad Max Vs. Game of Thrones). But, yeep, yoinks, yowch. Last night was a pretty good example of how the show hates its audience almost as much as it hates its women characters, which is to say, a great deal, indeed. It was a parade of hurt and humiliation for the women of Game of Thrones.
It was like they were going for a world record.
Let’s just go through the tally.
We open on three little girls being visibly caned. Painfully and with sharp cries. (I almost turned off the episode right there. Some pedophile caning little girls for his own pleasure right out of the gate churned my stomach. Now that I have a child, it’s one of those things that really rattles me.)
Stannis’ wife hangs herself (after helping to burn her own daughter to death last episode).
Melisandre is humiliated by the defeat of Stannis.
Sansa is almost killed by… whatever her name is, Ramsay’s spurned ex-girlfriend. Sansa does little to take her own agency or power here (except to possibly willfully submit to more pain), but no, no, it’s Theon “Reek” Greyjoy the Burninator of Childrens who saves the day and flings the other girl down to the ground where we watch her head thud bloodily against the stone. (Then he leads Sansa to the castle wall where they just jump, because apparently that’s an okay way to leave a castle.) (I also think we can all agree that when Sansa discarded the corkscrew she used to unlock her room door instead of, y’know, jamming that corkscrew into the very tip of Ramsay Snowbolton’s dingus — we all shared some very real collective disappointment.)
Arya goes blind.
The little Lannister girl is killed (?) by the poison of the Sand Snakes just moments after being totally cool about being a child of incest (“Love you too, UncleDad. HRRK–!”)
Dany is taken somewhere and her dragon is a jerkoff and now she’s surrounded by a whooping war-band of… Dothraki? I don’t even know. (What an excellent visual metaphor for how the show treats women, by the way: a bedraggled dragon-queen all alone, surrounded by a noisy tornado of shirtless men of questionable virtue. See also: a metaphor for being a woman on the Internet.)
And then, of course, the 37-minute Cersei “nude walk of shame through the city.” They shave her head bloody, they strip her down and then she marches full-frontally through the city while the entire city proves that it is basically home to a bunch of cave-people as they pelt her with pretty much everything. Which I guess was supposed to be impactful but just started to feel really gross. And again feels a lot like a metaphor for women on that show or on the Internet — BE SHAMED FOR YOUR AGENCY, WOMAN. BE NUDE AND FLUNG WITH CABBAGE, FECES, AND OTHER UNCERTAIN FLUIDS. Hashtag Gamer-Gate!
That last scene was seriously like, 16 hours long. And the show very clearly wanted us to watch every moment of it. Like she was Jesus dragging the Cross through town. If you tried to look away the show reached out and grabbed your chin and demanded you watch. “DON’T YOU LOOK AWAY,” the show growls through its yellow teeth. “DON’T YOU GO TURN ON ADVENTURE TIME, YOU MOTHERFUCKER. YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS. YOU JUST SEE.”
(I must note that all of this was startlingly well-acted, particularly the bit with Lena Headey as Cersei. And well-written and well-directed and all of that. Again, the problem with the show is not its quality, but rather for me, what it uses its deft skill to portray.)
Compounding this problem is that a lot of the suffering and saving is done by the men — Sansa is saved by Reek, Arya is taught a lesson by Jaqen, Dany is saved by a dragon and then deposited into whirling dudeland, Cersei suffers at the whim of the High Sparrow and then once inside is “saved” by that old creepy necromancer and his new pal, Zombie Mountain Man. Now Dany must be saved by her two dude lovers, and Sansa is in Reek’s hands (remember, he’s a hero even though he burned children alive), Cersei will exact revenge only at the behest of the king, and on and on — it’s women getting hurt and men doing the hurting and the saving.
Brienne, though, hey, she’s still cool.
2. Suffering
The show approaches human suffering with (to me) increasing cheapness. It’s nearly always spectacle and rarely always authentic or honest. That’s okay, usually, for a show like this — though certainly once in a while I like it when genre work actually tries to unpuzzle human emotions rather than just fling itself against them like an animal trapped in a Plexiglass box. Here, though, suffering is nearly always played for spectacle and surprise. They want your jaw to drop and your pants to soak through with pee because omg no they didn’t. But it often feels like they don’t really want to actually deal with the suffering in a meaningful way — it’s quick, mean, almost shallow. (Cersei actually gets close to it, and despite the pain of her walk of shame, Headey actually sells the emotion and makes you sympathetic for one of the most hated characters in the show. And her feelings as a mother are often sharply-drawn.)
Plus, it’s just suffering all the time.
I feel like we need oxygen in the show.
Some humor. Some moments. Some humanity.
You get them here or there, and they’re welcome and well-executed when they come.
But for me: not enough nowadays.
3. Death
The show similarly treats death as spectacle — and it works in that regard, narratively, when you use it sparingly. But the show takes its thematic motto (ALL MEN MUST DIE AND USUALLY PRETTY HORRIBLY IT’S NEVER LIKE A HEART ATTACK OR A SLIP DOWN SOME STAIRS IT’S ALWAYS ‘GUY GETS HIS PENIS CHOPPED OFF AND THEN FIRED THROUGH HIS SKULL WITH A CROSSBOW WIELDED BY THE HOWLING ZOMBIE OF HIS OWN FATHER’) pretty seriously. Almost too seriously and eagerly. Almost like a young Orson Lannister smashing beetles.
This is very much a personal thing but there’s a line you cross where you say oh no no character is safe and then once you kill off too many it becomes no, really, everybody is going to die, so it’s not even worth being surprised anymore, just be resigned to it, yawn, oh another death, oh and there’s another, and another, and that guy, and her, and hey I liked him, and oh she was horrible, and I think I’m going to go have a snack now, please send me a spreadsheet tallying all the dead-people data points in the morning for my recap.
It gets a little boring.
And it’s also somewhat disruptive, narratively speaking. Characters have arcs to fulfill. They are woven into the quilt of the narrative. But when you kill too many of them, the quilt stops demonstrating a pattern — it no longer looks like the end result will be a cohesive thing, a thing of vision and design but just some haphazard tangle of meaningless fabric-scraps. Death robs the narrative of shape and opportunity when used so quickly. Death becomes a series of check-boxes instead of the fulfullment of an arc. It’s bread and circuses. It’s a gladiator arena whose dirt floor is soaked with red.
(And it’s also a problem with TV, I think. So many shows become WHO WILL DIE THIS WEEK rather than WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE CHARACTERS. Death becomes a titillating expectation. Tune in to find out who gets hit by a car / mauled by a bear / killed by a hobo / crossbowed in the face by a dick-arrow.)
Granted, the show does often try to make the deaths add up — meaning, they culminate tragically, as a result of the character’s actions. They make their beds and then they lie in them, often quite dead. But more and more, it feels like in this storyworld what earns you death is literally anything at all. “Ah, she once looked at Cersei askance. A tragic death is earned again as she is torn apart by Westerosi coyotes on a tavern floor as the tavern patrons watch and visibly masturbate! All deaths are earned! All men must shit themselves upon morbidity! VOOLAR MORGLOBULIN!”)
Death works in the show and it’s woven into the theme.
But for me, it’s again become too much.
I get it. We all die. But the weekly reminder is wearing me down.
And So…
I’m out. Can’t do it anymore. I like grim and I like dark but this feels like grimgrimgrimgrimdarkdarkdark (aka GRRMDRRK™). I can only watch a show like this for so long before I feel gutted. I like the tragic thrill of watching horror movies (and make no mistake, Game of Thrones is basically a medieval mashup of a slasher film and a zombie movie), but horror movies are like, 90 minutes for a reason. Seeing this every week mostly just makes me upset. (See also why I had to check out of both the comic book and the show of The Walking Dead.)
It’s a shame, because it’s a show with some truly wild, wonderful moments — the riding of dragons and the death of gloriously cartoonishly evil villains and that super-amazing-bad-ass scene of all those scary-ass White Walkers pouring over the walls as they attack Jon Snow and the Wildlings (pro-tip: new band name if Scalzi doesn’t steal it first).
But I gotta say bye.
It’s okay if you still like it! No judgment. This is about me, not about you. It’s still a great show. Talented people are making it awesome every week. You do you. Me do me.
Maybe after the show is all done I’ll binge watch the horror and purge the toxins.
But week to week, can’t do it anymore.
Because right now, I’m rooting for the White Walkers.
*holds up foam finger*
*White Walkers #1*
woooooooo
L.K. Union says:
Chuck, I love you. And I’m right behind you on your way out the door.
June 15, 2015 — 8:32 AM
Theo says:
I wholeheartedly agree with these three points — as much as I don’t want to. The death aspect is especially wonky, making it incredibly difficult for me as a viewer to become attached to any character knowing they probably won’t last a full season now. All three characters I enjoyed and said: “Hmm, this character’s ambitions seem interesting,” are now dead! And I almost have no true attachment to the show itself now, other than simple visual entertainment. Good post, Chuck!
June 15, 2015 — 8:35 AM
K.C. Wise says:
This. All of this. we should also talk about (from writer/reader perspective) the sort of big “fuck you” to the investment people have put into this world. Fuck these characters you like. Fuck your hours spent reading the books and watching the show. Fuck this world that we break because tv because creative license because whatever. And then when readers get mad at the GROSS disregard for this universe and go complain to the original creator, he also tells us to fuck off.
Money. Time. Passion. Just to be kicked in the teeth and told to fuck off. What the hell, ya’ll?
I’m not talking about catalyst deaths that have clear consequences that make sense like Ned and Robb and even Tywin. I’m talking about Stannis and John, who seem to have end-game implications weaved all around them. Shereen’s death was just gratuitous (though showrunners implied George is gonna do it in the books??). I guess I am just thinking that death in such a big cast is interesting IF executed well WITH consequences that clearly mean something. Essentially, I think, we broke the world last night.
It just feels like there were a lot of fantastic dominos set up just to be knocked down in incredibly thoughtless fashion just for shock factor. Shock just for shock (in a world like this) is such lazy.
So why watch subsequent seasons? Why read the remaining books?? I feel stupid for giving it so much of my time and money!
June 15, 2015 — 8:39 AM
Kimberly Bowers says:
Exactly. I stopped watching after season four and never looked back. I read the series but don’t believe I’ll purchase any future books.
June 15, 2015 — 9:11 AM
Liz C says:
THIS: “Fuck this world that we break because tv because creative license because whatever.”
I could not agree more wholeheartedly, says the Outlander reader equally peeved about this habit of “adaptations”: You gift us some scenes verbatim from the books and my god it’s all full of stars! but then make all these changes for the sake of “surprise” or to explain something to non-book readers and y’all, these properties got to be TV shows or movies because we, the readers, obsessed over these worlds, so WHY do they always feel the need to fuck around with it?
June 15, 2015 — 10:12 AM
timetravellingbunny says:
Why not read the remaining books? The books so far have been good, unlike this crap the show has become.
June 15, 2015 — 11:49 AM
Katie Pierson says:
What you said. (And hope your mom is okay).
June 15, 2015 — 8:45 AM
Matt Black says:
1st: Too much death for the author of Blackbirds? This is serious.
2nd: The books are still excellent. I can’t wait for TWoW next spring and I am also done with this show.
3rd: I was pleasantly surprised about the first three seasons. After that, it’s what I expected all along from the same man who tried to ruin my favorite comic book franchise with “X-Men Origins: Wolverine”. Also, based on the aforementioned film, David Benioff thinks a wolverine is a wolf. It’s not. Not at all.
June 15, 2015 — 8:46 AM
terribleminds says:
Hah, yeah.
The Miriam Black series is about death — but specifically so, and very much about trying to figure out what life means in the face of ineluctable death. The way SIX FEET UNDER did. Or THE LEFTOVERS. It’s tricky, of course. But this series is sometimes just too much for me. I don’t wanna walk away from a show constantly feeling queasy. I want more fist-pumping holy-shit-she’s-riding-a-dragon moments and fewer “oh god why are they hurting these people” moments.
— c.
June 15, 2015 — 9:44 AM
Anthony W. Eichenlaub says:
I managed to quite a couple years ago, but it’s like being an addict. You always have to be wary of it sucking you back in to the GoT lifestyle. Gotta be careful not to hang out with the wrong crowd. Gotta be aware of those cravings.
Wouldn’t it be great if this same group of actors, writers, and directors started over on a new show? I know that there’s a law now that says that all new shows have to be based on comic books, but they could focus on a gritty remake of Archie or something. Or East of West.
Anyway, grats on escaping.
June 15, 2015 — 8:49 AM
christophergronlund says:
I’ve only seen the early death of Sean Bean. My first exposure to the TV series was, “They kill a major character right from the start!” After that, all I heard about the show was, “They killed major characters — you sooooooo need to watch!” (That, and, “It’s sooooooo violent and rapey and lots of sex.”)
It’s not that I’m against gritty, but all I heard from friends was the shock. Never anything more than how stunned they were that “They went there!” and things like that.
Even some of the friends who have been telling me, “You MUST watch!” are, this morning, saying they are done. I’m sure some will go back; some won’t. The level of sustained misery just never appealed to me. I’m glad many people have a show and books they love and that talented people are making a nice living from something they love, but you saying that it’s all too much is kind of what I figured when I rarely heard about the show’s intricacies over the shock value of it all.
It seems like an easy out.
(And yes, I know — some would say I should shut mah talky hole, babbling on about a show I’ve never watched. I guess, for me and what I heard…the show is good, but lacks heart. Grit without heart seems like spectacle to me, and spectacle is not enough to get me watching for years.)
June 15, 2015 — 9:12 AM
Kay Camden says:
I’ve never watched it either, aside from quick clips and stills I’ve seen on the internet. But I’ve heard enough about it to have formed a very solid opinion. So if I’m entitled to mine, you’re entitled to yours. 🙂
June 15, 2015 — 12:05 PM
Corey Furman says:
I get it. Not everyone digs the ins and out of Game of Thrones – but you’re being a bit of an ass, bro. The way you rant about these things comes off like a junkie – your words – who buys an eight ball and then complains that it got him too high.
June 15, 2015 — 9:13 AM
terribleminds says:
Thanks, “bro.”
Next rude comment earns you the spam oubliette.
— c.
June 15, 2015 — 9:33 AM
Corey Furman says:
I apologize, it wasn’t my intent to be rude, only to call you out. I would have thought you’d be fine with that, but perhaps I was too frank.
June 15, 2015 — 9:44 AM
terribleminds says:
First, calling someone out has a schoolyard pretense about it — like, some kind of gauntlet thrown down.
If you want to engage on the topic, all you have to say is something like, “But wasn’t that what the show was all along? Why are you bailing now?” And then I can answer that honestly.
But calling me an ass, bro, is only going to raise my hackles and make me aggressive in my response.
— c.
June 15, 2015 — 10:13 AM
Corey Furman says:
Again, I apologize. I think you will admit that you can be pretty snarky, and I didn’t anticipate that you would be put off by a bit of snark in return. I ask you to forget my initial comment. I rubbed you wrong and I take responsibility for that.
But let’s walk down the path you suggest. You’re right in saying that a gauntlet was thrown down, but let me rephrase: I challenge you to examine your public response to a show you chose to watch, knowing ahead of time that there will be horrible acts committed by even more horrible people to other characters in which you’ve been encouraged to invest – in the light of the perspective I offer. Aren’t your reactions… well, asked for? What were you expecting?
Again, I wish to keep this friendly. And though I didn’t say so earlier, sorry to hear about your mother’s health issues. I can absolutely relate.
Cheers
June 15, 2015 — 10:52 AM
terribleminds says:
Part of it is that, indeed, this has been the show all along. Though, I’d argue maybe it’s gotten a little worse in this regard — the treatment of women has been ceaselessly bad this season in particular, and the grr-bleaky-dark stuff seems to me to have gone a shade or two darker. I did know what the show was and I’ve said this before, but it crossed the point where it became too much. For me there was hope in the past and now it’s clear hope is really pretty well off the table. I like tragedy and dark stuff but this was just over the edge and for reasons I can’t quite understand. Like I said: that’s my problem, and doesn’t have to be yours or anybody else’s. But to say I shouldn’t talk about it because this is what the show is feels a bit silencing — like, “Don’t critique the popular thing.” And it’s an easy way to dismiss criticism of anything — “Well, BAD THING has been BAD THING so why are you surprised?” It’s not that I’m surprised. I’m not surprised, and that’s the problem. The show could — for me! — be so much more and so much better if it just eased off the EVERYTHING IS AWFUL throttle a little more.
I need a bit more light shining around this giant wall of dark.
— c.
June 15, 2015 — 11:35 AM
Todd Moody says:
I knew the moment the little girl got kissed that she was dead. GRRM can’t let us have any pure moments of happiness (but even this was tinged with incest), before laughing at you as she dies horribly. We heard the rumors of Jon Snow, but I held hope because I heard the words come straight from GRRM’s mouth with my own ears when he was in town on a book tour, how much he liked Jon Snow. It has become obvious that it is a waste of time to invest in ANY character. It boggles the mind how this series has become so popular. He had all of us fooled that at some point there would be some redemption, but I’m with you–I’m done with the show.
June 15, 2015 — 9:14 AM
timetravellingbunny says:
What does it have to do with GRRM? He did not write that crap, Benioff and Weiss did.
June 15, 2015 — 11:50 AM
larryhogue says:
The last two episodes were too much for me. I think the line it crossed was killing children I had grown to care about, and Shireen in such an awful way. I just about turned it off at the caning, until I realized that one of the girls was Arya. As far as plot, Stannis’ death was a shock – I don’t know why they didn’t just leave that battle as a cliffhanger, as Martin did in the books. Everything else in this last episode was a cliffhanger, even Jon Snow’s death. Melisandra is there, and she has access to the red god’s power of resurrection. He still has his destiny to fulfill, to stay true to the Theory of Jon Snow’s True Identity. But still, everything else was just too awful. I think I’ll wait for the books.
June 15, 2015 — 9:24 AM
Kristin Mireles (@kristinmireles) says:
There are a lot of ways it can go with Jon. Maybe he accesses his family’s skinchanging ability and goes into Ghost’s body. Maybe he does get resurrected by the Red Woman. Or, one of the things the show leaves out is that Mance didn’t actually die; the man who was burned and shot was a decoy. Melisandre cast a spell to make everyone think he was Mance. Maybe she did the same with Jon. The thing that really grinds my gears, though, is how they keep talking about how they’re running out of material for the show. Really? Did they base the show on the actual books, or on Cliff’s Notes? There was so much that the show just sped through that could have played a significant role in the story telling. But then, there’s not much storytelling now in the show; it’s just a series of events clumsily strung together. My chihuahuas could have written this season better!
June 18, 2015 — 8:33 PM
Kristin Mireles (@kristinmireles) says:
Oh, and Mance’s backstory! And Victarion Greyjoy and the Dragonbinder! And Asha Greyjoy! And Lady Fucking Stoneheart!
June 18, 2015 — 8:45 PM
Kristin Mireles (@kristinmireles) says:
And while they’re at it, Theon/Reek should have grown a pair, or found wherever they hid his, and castrated Ramsey. If they were going to bastardize the story, they should have done it right!
June 18, 2015 — 9:16 PM
Susan K. Swords says:
+1000. When an otherwise complex and imaginative TV series uses character death and sexual assaults constantly, over and over, something is lacking. And that “something” is creativity, which may, at this point, be the most shocking thing about Game of Thrones.
Constantly killing off the good characters simply wears down the viewer and gives us nothing to hang on to. I get it: good and otherwise smart people make mistakes, and in Westeros, that can be fatal. Can no one come up with a scenario where they learn a tough lesson and make it useful, instead of dying from it?
**warning: more spoilers here…**
If I’d known in advance, I would have set up a drinking game for all the cliffhangers in this finale. Did Theon and Sansa die from that leap? Did Brienne really execute Stannis? Was that The Mountain who carried Cersei off when she made it back to the castle? Will Arya stay blind? Will John Snow stay dead? It would have been enough to get me drunk in a flash, and that would have been the best way to get through this.
I think I’m done with it too. Game of Thrones, you executed your own vitality.
June 15, 2015 — 9:25 AM
Brent says:
It has been interesting for me to read both this post and the one talking about how it treats women. I admit that my total engagement with the series was:
– see the first book in the bookstore, when it was new, and read the opening section. Starting engaging with a character then saw him destroyed. Thought “This author is a jerk, why would I read this?” and kept on browsing.
– a number of years later, as it was becoming so popular, I thought “well, maybe it was just a bad choice of opening sequence.” So I went back to a bookstore, opened the book at random, and read…. actually I forget exactly what but it was something horrific. Possibly a rape, but maybe ‘just’ a murder or vicious assault. Whatever it was, the language seemed to caress and cradle the horror of it; it felt like the author was holding a beloved pet cat, except that instead of a cat it was all that is terrible within us mixed up with nightmares and possibly toxic waste, and was probably covered in suckers, tentacles, and an oily layer of concentrated disgust. I shuddered, slammed the book back, and did my best not to remember the scene.
My call at the time was: every time I turn on the news on the radio or open the newspaper (yes, I’m old enough to think in those terms) I get a brain-full of all the horrific things people do to each other. Why would I choose to use my precious leisure time to wallow in it? Sure books have to deal with the bad as well as the good, but this author seems to be cheering for the evil.
And as GoT has become a bigger and bigger phenomenon, I’ve resisted giving it a third chance. I’ve doubted myself at times, wondered if maybe I should try the TV show instead of the books, or at least read one of the books….. but in the end I suspect, reading what you have written, that I made the right call for me in the first place, that the stories deliver on the promise of those first few pages.
June 15, 2015 — 9:32 AM
Kay Camden says:
My introduction to the books was the same as yours. The opening, followed by a random page where a woman is raped on a pile of corpses or something. I sensed the same tone as you. The rape and killing seemed to be for titillation. Written as if the reader is getting some sick pleasure from it. No thanks.
June 15, 2015 — 12:12 PM
gaeliceyes says:
Thank you, Chuck! I have been suffering from what I call “nerd guilt” for about two years now due to no longer watching either of these shows. That is when I gave up on “Walking Dead”, which I loved both versions of. And I gave up on GoT in the middle of last season. I felt the same weariness at the neverending GRRMDRRKness of it. I’m so glad that someone else feels the same way! My husband still loves the show, but I have to ask him to watch it when I’m not in the house. I find I’m in the same position, that since I got pregnant and had my son, I’m not as keen on the portrayals of life as unrelieved despair, deceit, and death. I want to watch stuff that has at least a granule of hope and light in it.
I’m still going to read at least the next book, though. I really, really need to know what happened to you-know-who. C’mon, is he dead or not? If he is, I think I can finally purge all guilt for walking away from the story.
June 15, 2015 — 9:33 AM
Gry Ranfelt says:
Spot on.
Though I have to say I think Cersei’s walk of shame had the point of “hey, they’re finally punishing this woman who is horrible but FOR THE WRONG REASONS because every woman has a right to sex” but anyway … you’re basically right.
Rooting for white walkers as well.
June 15, 2015 — 9:37 AM
Paul G Day says:
Says it all really. A very apt post, echoing my own feelings. I want redemption. I want the bad dudes to get their due. I want resolution. I want there to be hope. I want some reason. If I can’t get that from this show there really is no point in putting myself through all that darkness, trechery, incest, rape, torture, without there being some end game where good triumphs. I get that the real world is bad, but in drama I need that badness to have its day and meet a deserved finality in a resolution that offers some not insubstantial hope.
June 15, 2015 — 9:57 AM
Cincoflex says:
Well said! *applause*
June 15, 2015 — 10:15 AM
WTF Pancakes says:
I’m with you 100% on all of the above, particularly the treatment of women. If I had to sum it all up, I’d say the whole spectacle feels gratuitous.
I hope this doesn’t come across as catty, but this whole post reminded me of the many, many “I’m leaving Facebook” posts I’ve read and written.
June 15, 2015 — 10:02 AM
Kay Camden says:
We need to keep Chuck honest. Take turns checking up on him.
June 15, 2015 — 12:16 PM
Anthony says:
I think there’s actually a strong narrative lesson in this, and one I think I’d love for you to go over in more depth, Chuck.
Pain is an integral part of storytelling. We hurt our characters. We make them bleed. We make them suffer. You have to take away their shoes then make them walk across a floor of broken glass. You have to hurt them. It makes tension. Keeps the reader involved.
However, you also have to make the character who suffers the pain come through it. There has to be growth from the crucible, and growth in a way that grants agency to the character and catharsis for the reader. We can get through John McClane walking on broken glass, because we also get to see him persevere and come out in the next encounter with the bad guys. Miriam can go through all the mental trauma and physical pain that happens, but she also comes out it stronger and with moments that make the pain worth it.
If you don’t have the moments that make the pain worth it, or if those moments are too far away or don’t pay off enough, the pain isn’t tension building it’s just pornographic. If the pain is just going to break a character, it doesn’t need to be focused on or shown. Just imply it. Hell, it’s better that way. We don’t need to see all the stuff that happens to Theon to make him Reek. The punishment for a child killer is known even if it isn’t shown when we see Reek. The redemption (if that is what it is) in helping Sansa is still there without knowing the details of what happened. Even then, you continue to hurt Sansa with no pay off or redemption in sight.
The more I read about the show the more it seems less like a thrilling narrative work of epic – if dark – fantasy and the more it seems like a very lengthy pornographic work of suffering and pain. So where is the line?
June 15, 2015 — 10:04 AM
terribleminds says:
There are good lessons in here, yeah.
That said, I don’t know that you need to make characters come through pain — sometimes they stay in it and that’s the story. But that approach needs to be thoughtful. You do that for a reason, and that reason is to explore pain and suffering and through it, the human condition. This is less that and, for me, feels more like spectacle based on the wobbly foundation of BUT, BUT, BUT HISTORY.
For me *personally* — I like to hurt characters and have that pain be meaningful in some way, whether or not they come through it okay.
June 15, 2015 — 10:15 AM
Anthony says:
That is definitely another aspect of it, which I guess I kind of touched on but you said much better. Coming through it doesn’t have to be “stronger” but meaningful. Either way, I’d still love to see you go on in more depth on the use of pain in narrative, what makes it meaningful, and when/how it goes from meaningful to gratuitous.
Thanks for the response though. You added a lot to think about with very little. 🙂
June 15, 2015 — 11:49 AM
Fiona Fire says:
For me, the bigger problem is that innocent characters suffer pain they didn’t earn. I don’t mind Arya being blinded because she knew there was a risk by breaking the rules of her training. Or Dany being on the run because of an insurrection in the city, because she knew taking Meeren would mean being a target of violence. There is a consequence for an action they took. Same thing for the red wedding. But Sansa and Shireen did nothing to “earn” their suffering.
I also feel like the show wants me to love Tyrion and hate Cersei and I feel the opposite. Tyrion is like the worst kind of Nice Guy (TM) who complains when pretty girls won’t date him (and who killed his sex worker GF because she was sleepin around– gross) and Cersei is totally awesome.
I’m also out after this season. There are great actors and great production values, but it’s too much suffering and too much so-so plotting to make it happen.
June 17, 2015 — 12:06 AM
Al says:
If only we lived in a world where only people who earned pain got it. I prefer my fantasy tales to not be complete bullshit so I don’t expect GRRM to have a world where only people who deserve bad things get them, good people get rewarded, and the bad are punished. It is pretty clear in GoT that GRRM is also attacking/taking on fantasy tropes and calling them out as the BS they often are. “Oh, you think this righteous and honest northern lord is the hero because he has these heroic qualities? Well, his honest and stiffness in a palace of intrigue just gets him dead because he’s unwilling to bend to the real world.”
June 17, 2015 — 12:40 AM
timetravellingbunny says:
That’s true of the books, and was true of the show in its earlier seasons. But at this point, the show has, as someone has pointed out in this Tumblr post http://sillier-things.tumblr.com/post/121662576787/the-reason-bad-things-happen-on-got-has-changed gone from being a show that wouldn’t cheat to help the good guys to a show that will cheat to help the bad guys. And how. Just a few examples are mentioned there:
“- Yara/Asha and “The 50 best swordsmen in the Iron Isles” lose a fight to a shirtless guy with a knife and 3 dogs, which is roughly what you would encounter on your average domestic disturbance call. The 50 best swordsmen in the Iron Isles couldn’t survive half an episode of “Cops”
– The Unsullied and Barristan Selmy lose a fight against unarmored aristocrats with knives.
“20 good men” infiltrate the camp of the greatest military tactician alive.
– The Unsullied lose another fight against unarmored aristocrats with spears, who honestly also make a pretty good showing against a dragon.
– The Boltons, despite not being supported by most of the north, and seemingly not having any massive source of money, raise an army of tens of thousands and overwhelm Stannis.”
Add to this the absolutely illogical behavior of Sansa, Littlefinger and Roose Bolton that happened because they had to bend the logic to get the Sansa/Ramsay marriage happen, or Littlefinger, who seems to know everything, not knowing anything about Ramsay (who has been openly flaying people all over the North), or the similarly illogical behavior of Stannis (which sane king would ever burn their only king and heir?!)…
Being dark, dark, dark does not mean being realistic. Instead of making the heroes invincible, the show is at this point making the villains invincible (especially Ramsay) and heaping all sort of horrors on the likable characters, even when they defy logic.
June 17, 2015 — 8:55 AM
Katie Doyle says:
This reminds me of the time (well before the show started) when I was reading book 2(?) and a particular character died and I literally threw the book across the room. I can’t remember what character at this point, mainly because of all the deaths, not only in the show but also in the books. After a while, it is about “who’s gonna die next?” instead of “WHAT’S gonna happen next” and that isn’t something that I enjoy.
I’m going to keep watching. Sure, I’m at the same point of rooting for the White Walkers, but I’d like to think–and maybe I’m being a bit naive here–that maybe things will get better for the women in the show? Maybe, after all the death, life will start to be the main point of all of it? Maybe?
June 15, 2015 — 10:05 AM
Christi Frey says:
I’m going to sound like a big wuss, but this has happened to me a lot lately. Caught a bit of the Borgia: baby burning scene. Nope, nope, nope. Marco Polo: guy breaks his older daughter’s feet in foot-binding scene. NOPE. All this stuff I hear about GOT? Nooooooope. I love horror movies but I won’t do misery porn. I’ve been watching ST:TNG from start to finish and it’s like a nice warm blanket of fluffy kittens.
June 15, 2015 — 10:06 AM
Lola Fow says:
Misery porn is EXACTLY the right term for it.
June 15, 2015 — 11:51 AM
bassplyr5150 says:
Sorry to hear about your Mom. Hope she’s ok. Sending Good Vibes your way. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
June 15, 2015 — 10:09 AM
Cincoflex says:
Thanks for this, truly. I read the first book and got queasy, so I refused to get involved with the show but my hubby and teenaged son both watch avidly. When I try to talk about the disturbing implications of the plots, they both used to take that with a grain of salt, but this season has definitely changed their attitudes.
June 15, 2015 — 10:13 AM
Darke Conteur says:
Dark Matter is good. New show. Kind of reminds me of Firefly.
June 15, 2015 — 10:15 AM
Denise Vitola says:
I rented the first season on Netflix and could go no farther. Talk, talk, talk. Sex, rape, sex, rape, and then maiming kids. No thanks.
June 15, 2015 — 10:16 AM
Mara J. Burke says:
I never made it past book 1 for all these reasons.
June 15, 2015 — 10:18 AM
Josh says:
I’ve read the books up through A Feast for Crows but stopped there with a “why am I reading this?” so I can understand that “why am I watching this?” feeling. I tried watching the show but I just couldn’t do it past a few episodes in the first season. I don’t know if I should applaud GRRM and the show’s directors for successfully trampling my emotions and gut-punching my morality or find a way to sue them for taking me on a feels trip that my parent/guardian didn’t sign the permission slip for.
June 15, 2015 — 10:19 AM
Joe Passmore Jr. says:
I’ve never watched the show before, but after reading what you wrote about the little girls being lashed, I’ll never watch now. I’m a fairly new parent (my first, a daughter, is about to turn 4 in the fall), and I’ll never be able to handle seeing that. No thank you.
June 15, 2015 — 10:23 AM
Dan Alatorre AUTHOR says:
Sometimes I think you target popular stuff just to show how cool you are. I had a friend who thought the GOT books were all whorey and only finished with sheer determination, but she had zero interest in watching the TV show.
I started watching because some friend of my wife’s said it was a good show and my wife likes costume dramas. So we watched. This season is pretty bad compared to prior seasons, so maybe they felt they had to ratchet it up. I miss episodes and don’t care. That can’t be a good sign for them.
But as for tapping out, I’ve felt the same way about this blog. Usually I reccommend people go without the swan song. I may be back, but I doubt it.
Cheers.
June 15, 2015 — 10:25 AM
terribleminds says:
“Sometimes I think you target popular stuff just to show how cool you are.”
*narrows eyes*
*tries to figure out what that even means*
*hemorrhages*
Okay, the reason I talk about this is for a few reasons:
a) This is my blog and I talk about things I’m thinking about. I’m thinking about this and so here I am, barfing up words. No post will connect with no single reader completely, but really, I don’t care that it does. Why would I want it to? I want to do right by the things going on in my brain, not by individual people who might disagree with me. If I lived like that I’d never say anything at all or even write books in the first place.
b) It IS popular and that’s all the more reason to talk about it. That means a lot of people will understand the source material *and* because it’s seen by millions of eyeballs every week, the show’s cultural ramifications are deeper and wider.
c) I don’t give a rat’s rotten dick about being “cool.” I don’t even know what the hell that means, man.
I don’t blame you for tapping out — that’s how our pop culture experiences are. We cannot consume everything all the time and to completion. If this blog isn’t for you anymore, why would I want you to keep reading? Why would *you* want to keep reading it? Narrow your signal and find what connects with you. If it’s not this blog, I bid you adieu with a salute. A real salute, not even the middle-fingered kind.
— c.
June 15, 2015 — 10:37 AM
Anthony says:
Just to add on B. Being popular also means that it is going to shape other stories that come after. How many shows have started with the idea of being “X networks Game of Thrones.” How many stories are being written now by people who want to capture the feel of GoT and cash in on it as well? Nothing is wrong with either of those things happening, but if you don’t discuss it then the things that could be problematic are likely to keep reappearing. That’s how culture starts and propogates.
June 15, 2015 — 11:53 AM
benpanced says:
I’m just trying to figure out why people don’t let others have an opinion contrary to the rest of the crowd, especially on teh intartoobz. You don’t like the show any longer, and you gave the reasons why in a well-thought piece. It’s not about being a part of “the cool kids” or anything that juvenile (Christ, don’t get me started on the arguments I’ve gotten into over “Family Guy” and “American Dad!”, having been accused of not liking either show because the humor isn’t “ironic”, whatever the hell THAT’S supposed to mean!), so why can’t people just let you be and have your opinion about a show, especially one you used to enjoy? The people who are still going to watch obviously outnumber you, so why the hell should it matter if you like the show or not?
June 15, 2015 — 8:48 PM
fairbetty says:
This part “And it’s also somewhat disruptive, narratively speaking. Characters have arcs to fulfill. They are woven into the quilt of the narrative. But when you kill too many of them, the quilt stops demonstrating a pattern — it no longer looks like the end result will be a cohesive thing, a thing of vision and design but just some haphazard tangle of meaningless fabric-scraps. Death robs the narrative of shape and opportunity when used so quickly. Death becomes a series of check-boxes instead of the fulfillment of an arc. It’s bread and circuses. It’s a gladiator arena whose dirt floor is soaked with red.”
This is what I’ve been saying all along… ever since Ned Stark… and it just kept snowballing… and I can’t even watch the show because the books were bad enough! It does help to clarify my personal taste in fictional narrative
June 15, 2015 — 10:27 AM
Nathan Strickland (@nstrickles) says:
Here’s my beef with the whole thing (and it may seem a petty beef, like a quarter-pounder pattie, but like that much-maligned sandwich it still makes me sick): GRRM has this little dance of “Oh ho, but this horrible thing I just did (in a fantasy story) has some correlary in history! Don’t be mad at me folks, it’s history that’s terrible!”
And he’s right… if you cherry-pick all the worst parts of history. In the aggregate though, shit kinda usually buffs out on the side of goodness. Yes, Joan of Arc was burned at the stake, but her side still won. Yes the genocide of Native Americans was awful and rephrensible and every other word you can think of and their life still isn’t peachy on the reservations, but they’re still and now fleecing old people in their casinos. Even the darkest parts have a history of regressing towards a certain moral mean. Yes, World War 2 ended with Stalin (who was awful) controlling most of Europe… but then Stalin got poisoned by his horrible rapist chief of secret police Beria (ok, not much better) who was then himself arrested and executed by the much less awful Kruschev. Kruschev: not gonna ever crack the top 100 of History’s Nicest Dudes, but he beats mass-murder and serial rapist any day.
As the great MLK put it, “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.” Not every story has a happy ending, but if you claim your awful story is a reflection of reality it is really a reflection of yourself.
June 15, 2015 — 10:30 AM
timetravellingbunny says:
What’s up with people railing at GRRM in the comments?! 90% of deaths and rape this season was invented by Benioff and Weiss. They killed off a bunch of people who are still alive in the books just for shock value and with no narrative reason, and wrote an incredibly convoluted and nonsensical storyline for Sansa just so she could be raped by Ramsay, also purely for shock value.
June 15, 2015 — 11:53 AM
Nathan Strickland (@nstrickles) says:
Please note above: because GRRM is the one waving his dirty mitts at the audience saying “Oooooh don’t blame me because the story is based on history and history was baaaaaad!” Sure, medieval life was rough, but there were still plenty of non-murder/rape weddings and babies were born and life went on. And sometimes the good side did win, like with Alexander Nevksy at the Battle of the Ice.
I’m not going to guess at why the showrunners made their questionable decisions, but it’s pretty plain that the books are just are horrible (and packed with more sickening detail), particularly with the brutalities inflicted on secondary characters (Let’s not forget that in the books Myrcella is not a teen but an 8 year old who gets whacked in the face by a sword swung by a grown man, or that girl who gets her teeth knocked out while being raped by the Mountain, or…)
“Because this was the way it happened in real life” is poor storytelling, pure and simple. As long as GRRM uses this as a crutch to deny the reader any reprieve from awfulness, I’m going to hold it against him.
June 15, 2015 — 1:27 PM
terribleminds says:
Let’s keep the anti-GRRM chatter down — he’s a person, an author like many of us, and he makes the choices he makes for the reasons he makes them. He also has far less control over the TV show than people imagine. I don’t know him, but I like his work and I appreciate his existence, so let’s keep it human.
June 15, 2015 — 2:10 PM
Al says:
You do realize that the show authors consult with GRRM and he approves their changes, right? The little girl being burned to death by her father that people got all mad about because it didn’t happen in the books? GRRM approved it and said “Oh, it happens in the next book. I just haven’t shown it yet.” The rape of Sansa, which didn’t happen in the book, happened to a character who was married to Ramsey Bolten because she pretended to be a Stark daughter (and it was worse in the book). Under GRRM’s approval, they merged this character with Sansa so, yeah, what happened to Sansa *did* happen in the book if you realize that the showrunners are merging characters to simplify and explain storylines.
This is a BS complaint.
June 17, 2015 — 12:44 AM
timetravellingbunny says:
You do realize that none of what you said is true, except for the part that “something like that happened to another character”, which is an absolutely BS argument that can only be swallowed by someone who has absolutely no idea what good storytelling or narrative logic, or any kind of logic for that matter, is. I don’t have the energy to repeat the same things I said plenty of times to other people who tried to pull that same ridiculous argument, so I will just link this article that sums it up: http://www.therainbowhub.com/jeyne-poole-and-bad-storytelling-why-we-need-to-stop-making-excuses-for-gratuitous-rape-scenes/
As the author points out, female characters are not interchangeable rape dolls.
You know, there’s a very minor character in A Dance with Dragons, a maester who appears in one or two chapters who gets gang raped and thrown overboard by the Ironborn sailors who despise the learned. Now, I bet if the show decided to put Tyrion in his role instead, make him decide to serve on an ironborn ship for no reason whatsoever and change his characterization by making him lose all his wit and resourcefulness so he would be a total victim, and then had Tyrion’s entire season arc consist of him being raped by the sailors, you would be saying: “But this happens in the books, too, to someone else!” Yeaaah…
And the rest you’re claiming is simply not true. GRRM did NOT give Benioff and Weiss approval for their boneheaded changes. Benioff and Weiss do NOT ask GRRM for approval, and they don’t have to. They can do whatever they like and GRRM can do nothing about it. GRRM has in fact complained about the changes they have made before, and has made it clear in his responses on his blog that he has no influence on what HBO, Benioff or Weiss do. He has also pointedly made sure to release the Sansa chapter from Winds of Winter just before the season started, and to read that same chapter at his only comic con appearance this year – to remind everyone that what they’ve done to Sansa in season 5 has absolutely nothing to do with her actual role in the books. And he also pointedly mentioned Jeyne Poole as one of the five characters that the show really should have included, in this article. http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/31/game-thrones-lady-stoneheart My favorite part is where he says about Willas and Garlan Tyrell: “I didn’t just put them in for hoots and giggles, they have roles to play in the last two books, and they don’t exist in the show.”
Media are even starting to ask if GRRM and the writers are in “war”: http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/06/george-rr-martin-showrunner-war/?fb_ref=Default
And the part that GRRM told them he is going to burn Shireen exactly as in the books is absolute nonsense. Even if Benioff is telling the truth that GRRM told them something about Shireen being burned, it’s theoretically impossible for it to happen the same way as in the show. Benioff never said that Stannis burns her, but even if he does, it certainly wouldn’t be because of “ambition” (they have so thoroughly misconstructed his character it’s ridiculous) and definitely not because Ramsay Sue burned his supplies and the weather is bad. Anyone who’s read the books knows that at the end of the last published book, Shireen, Selyse and Melisandre are at the Wall, not with Stannis at all, while Stannis is marching on Winterfell to fight the battle against the Boltons,in much harsher conditions than anything on the show, but is refusing to burn anyone as sacrifice other than men he has condemned to death anyway because they had resorted to cannibalism (that’s how bas the conditions are in the book are), and is telling one of his men he is sending on a mission to put his daughter on the throne if he dies in battle. So, either Stannis dies in the battle, and the show didn’t change the timing of his death too much, though it did everything else (Brienne is in the Riverlands and can’t even theoretically kill him any time soon, she does not have the transporter that some characters seem to have in the show where they just pop up in various faraway places in no time), and then he never even theoretically has the chance to burn Shireen, or if he is somehow involved in burning Shireen in the books, then he is not killed during the battle of Winterfell. In either case, the idea that the show has “faithfully” adapted his arc is total nonsense that’s even impossible in theory.
It’s possible that Shireen is burned at some later date because Melisandre thinks this is necessary to save the world (not to win a battle against the freaking Boltons!) – in fact, many boo readers have been predicting that. But to suggest that it doesn’t matter how it happens or who does it or why it happens, as long as she burns, means you have absolutely no clue about what good storytelling, characterization, or literary themes are. That would be like saying that, if they had Ned decide to kill himself because he was depressed, and Catelyn had gone mad and killed herself and Robb, that would not have been a change on the show because “they also die in the books”. You know what Shireen’s burning on the show reminds me of? Not a Greek tragedy, but the South Park episode in which the townsfolk got stuck in the snow and a bit hungry, since they haven’t eaten a thing since breakfast, so they decided casually to eat Eric Roberts. That’s right, Game of Thrones at this point looks like a South Park parody of itself.
And this is what GRRM actually had to say about Benioff using his name to defend his stupid storytelling choices and claiming that GRRM told them that “this” happens in his later books (though Benioff never clarified what he meant by “this” – Shireen being burned? Shireen being burned by Stannis/with Stannis’ consent? Shireen being burned for a similarly stupid reason as in the show?): “If I start to comment on what might or might not happen in scenes that I have not written yet, I will be ‘spoiling’ my own books.”
Yeah, your arguments are BS.
June 17, 2015 — 8:45 AM
Al says:
U mad, Bro?
June 17, 2015 — 12:30 PM
terribleminds says:
Dial it back, folks. Thanks.
June 17, 2015 — 12:40 PM
Kristin Mireles (@kristinmireles) says:
You make some excellent points. Benioff and Weiss are raping the story just like Ramsey raped Sansa in the show. And the act is senseless and brutal, just like their treatment of the story. The more I watch the show, the more I get the impression that the writers hate women. GRRM’s female characters in the book, on the other hand, have much more significance. And, (even though Brienna’s face gets eaten,) for the most part, their characters are more empowered than their TV counterparts.
June 18, 2015 — 10:01 PM
otterpoet says:
Considering the TV Show is lighter than the actual books, I had to chuckle at this. I watch the show because, honestly, I have to struggle with the books now – still haven’t finished the latest. A Feast For Crows is the first novel I’ve literally thrown across a room, yelling a Tourette’s level string of obscenities (&^$% YOU, Lady Stoneheart!!!). And the latest book continues this ugly trend. Not sure if I’ll ever finish it, and simply go to a dominatrix instead… the punishment will be far more enjoyable (and less effort).
Don’t get me wrong, I completely respect the genre of Grim Dark. And I watch Finnish horror movies, so I I’m accustomed to soul-crushing bleakness (Watch Sauna (2008),.. hurts so good). But I only in small doses, please! If I can’t have at least one character to root for, one narrative to gain the slightest hint of hope from, what’s the freakin’ point?! And seriously, I have to resist setting fire to the TV every time Ramsey Bolton is on… my hatred of him has become a visceral thing living and breeding inside my guts.
My only consolation is the (likely false) belief that since Lady Melisandre is around Jon Snow will receive a free “Get Out of Stabby-Death” card. Otherwise, I’m not really enthusiastic about the next season (or book).
June 15, 2015 — 10:38 AM
Christopher Kubasik (@MakerCK) says:
This was lovely…. and explains why I was ambivalent about watching the show way back in Season 3. And gave up on it three-quarters through Season 4. All the habits everyone has been talking about has been prominent since at least Season 3. Add in meandering plotting with fascinating characters and it just couldn’t hold my interest. (What the hell happened with Jaime? He should have been the most compelling thing on TV after he came back to King’s Landing!)
I want to add one more thing:
Shakespeare’s MACBETH.
MACBETH takes a lot of knocks for being almost everything Chuck describes above. But Shakespeare invests all of his characters — the villains and the victims — with a voice. While I appreciate the advocacy for agency, often I’d be satisfied with simply having the many, many women on this show who suffer.
I’m thinking, for example, of Lady Macduff and her son as they’re getting ready to flee Macbeth’s bloody path and deal with McDuff’s death. We get Lady McDuff’s concern for her son, her son’s simple reasoning on how easy it will be to survive, and the son’s wise observation about how most of the world is made up of traitors — thereby illustrating how the rule of law is so often a sham.
If the women, for example, of Craster’s Keep, had been given a chance simple to give voice to their suffering, to their views of the world, of men… Well, that would have been something, wouldn’t it. But they are, literally, props for men to rescue. They have no thoughts, no voice, no opinions, no point-of-view on the world or life, whether it be their lives in particular or the world in general. Of course, those women WOULD have thoughts and opinions. But the show never gave them a chance to speak them. And that opportunity would have made them more than being objects in a check list of plot points.
If someone is going suffer, in my opinion, you have to give them voice. One of the purposes of storytelling is to illuminate and offer empathy to those we are not. And to hear the words of the suffering, their voices and opinions, would have been a lovely thing. Think of the plays of Euripides, for example. If just a little bit of the wisdom of the construction of THE TROJAN WOMEN was brought into HBO’s GAME OF THRONES had been brought into play, we would have had a very different kind of show. One I could have probably kept watching.
But as it is it, I keep hearing, “Well, that’s the way the world is.” And well, yes. But a story is supposed to do something more. A story is more than the world.
June 15, 2015 — 10:38 AM
terribleminds says:
‘But as it is it, I keep hearing, “Well, that’s the way the world is.” And well, yes. But a story is supposed to do something more. A story is more than the world.’
*roaring applause*
June 15, 2015 — 10:40 AM
Brandy says:
I may have just teared up a little. Thank you for that.
June 15, 2015 — 12:35 PM
Jenn Lyons says:
Thank you. That was very well said. I completely agree.
June 15, 2015 — 12:44 PM
Christopher Kubasik (@MakerCK) says:
Hey, it was really early and I was just drinking my first cup of coffee when I wrote the above, so I want to fix something:
“I’d be satisfied with simply having the many, many women on this show who suffer.” ended too soon.
It should have said, “I’d be satisfied with simply having the many, many women on this show who suffer had a voice.” Which I hope is obvious. But the meanings are completely different!
June 15, 2015 — 2:22 PM
Maya Langston says:
Very well said. You’ve taught me something.
June 16, 2015 — 4:27 PM
gardenlilie says:
Hi Chuck. My husband and I watch it every week on Sunday and Highlander on Saturdays. It’s our entertainment and that it does. But TV has become expensive, so not sure where we are headed. I give kudos to the writer because he taps the gruesome and vile in us, not sure I could do that. Possibly many of those things happened, either in real life or lore, but I’ll stay right where I am. We all need the months break to clear our minds and search for purity.
June 15, 2015 — 10:50 AM
Maryann says:
This really resonated with me. Not as a writer/storyteller, but as a person who wanted and wants to see the triumph of the human spirit and characters who revel in being alive. Not that I am against a character’s gut-wrenching journey in any way.
I had listened to friends and colleagues chatter about GoT ad nauseum, ’til finally I decided last spring to pay the evil cable monopoly the ransom, er. money, it took to get access to the show. I waited eagerly and I watched.Two episodes. And then I watched no more.
Like you, I came to “not me GoT” after experiencing the trauma of family members’ illness and death. At that point last spring, I had lost four family members in just over a year and had come close to losing two more.
I just couldn’t do it. I need to see some light. To the extent that I permanently shelved a series I had been toying with writing for years. It was too dark and I can’t do that kind of dark anymore.
June 15, 2015 — 10:51 AM
t.s.wright says:
I could not agree with you more. Thank you for making me laugh so hard about it I nearly passed out.
I had high hopes for John Snow. He was good and brave and just. He may have been a bastard, but his father (or uncle, point now moot) treated him with respect and as a son, so he grew up well. He stayed so true to Stark values…
that they killed him like Caesar.
There is no point in being a good person in Westeros (or anywhere in that universe). They will only kill you faster. Being a drunk and fornicating a lot is probably the only thing that’s kept Tyrion alive.
Even Cersei, a character I’ve hated all along – did not deserve the extent of her karmic punishment.
It is all too much now. For something that is meant to be entertainment, it weighs too heavy on the soul.
June 15, 2015 — 10:53 AM
casadeim says:
Chuck,
First of all, very well wishes/speedy recovery to your mother!! Second, this was a great read! We often get tangled up so much into a show that captivating moments of that show cause us to lash out at others who dare to disturb it! It’s the, “Get the fuck away from me I’m watching G.O.T!!” I then apologize to my daughter for yelling…..Ok…so I don’t really say that to her but you get the point! However, after last night, my wife and I almost felt like we needed some sort of therapy? Like I was afraid to even watch next season because it would drown me with hatred and humiliation and no longer make me feel like I am going on an epic journey with the characters. Now it’s a journey of death and who the hell wants to walk that freaking plank every ship ride! So I hear ya, I maybe unplugging as well or maybe just drink before the show where I longer give a damn!
June 15, 2015 — 10:56 AM
Andrew says:
*SPOILER WARNINGS!!!
I love the books. I think they are a once in a generation series. The last 2 seasons of the show have not had the magic of the first 3. I think the show has shot itself in the foot repeatedly making its own story lines to please TV audiences and cutting corners. I get together with my family and friends (who’ve all read the books) and eat big meals and drink when someone on TV drinks. It’s really fun! We talk about what might happen in the next books and usually criticize the show when they miss the mark. People who haven’t died in the books who are dead on TV: both Shireen and Stannis’ wife, Myrcella, Stannis, Ser Barristan, Ramsays ex is basically made up for TV, (Sansa is with Littlefinger in the Vale!) Grenn, Pyp, Mance Raider are also alive In the books.
It kind of sounds like you were very distraught at Jon Snows’s death and are still grieving… when a lot of people don’t think he is quite dead: Melisandre and GHOST are at the wall….also did anyone else notice his eyes were a different color? His eyes are brown, but when he was lying in the Snow (lol) his eyes were pale blue/grey? Not quite wight blue though.
June 15, 2015 — 11:01 AM
Al says:
Don’t read the next book since GRRM is killing Shireen in it, pretty much like he did in the show (and said as much when he agreed with them putting it in the show).
June 17, 2015 — 12:47 AM
timetravellingbunny says:
Stop spreading misinformation.
GRRM did not “agree” for Benioff and Weiss to do anything, since he sold them the rights to make the show. They don’t ask him for permission and they don’t need his permission. He has made it clear that he has no influence over what they do. He’s also made it clear that he thinks a lot of the things they did is a mistake. And he definitely has not said that he’s killing Shireen “pretty much the same way as in the show”, which makes no sense anyway, since she cannot be killed the same way as in the show as she’s at the Wall while Stannis is with his army, going to Winterfell. Not even Benioff claims that Stannis will kill her or that it will happen “pretty much the same way”, he just tried to defend his writing decision by saying that GRRM told them that “this” happens, without clarifying what “this” exactly is (Shireen being burned? Stannis being responsible for Shireen being burned? Shireen being burned for an equally idiotic reason as in the show.
This is what GRRM has actually said on the matter:
“Meanwhile, other wars are breaking out on other fronts, centered around the last few episodes of GAME OF THRONES. It is not my intention to get involved in those, nor to allow them to take over my blog and website, so please stop emailing me about them, or posting off-topic comments here on my Not A Blog. Wage those battles on Westeros, or Tower of the Hand, or Boiled Leather, or Winter Is Coming, or Watchers on the Walls. Anyplace that isn’t here, actually.
Yes, I know that THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER named me “the third most powerful writer in Hollywood” last December. You would be surprised at how little that means. I cannot control what anyone else says or does, or make them stop saying or doing it, be it on the fannish or professional fronts. What I can control is what happens in my books, so I am going to return to that chapter I’ve been writing on THE WINDS OF WINTER now, thank you very much.”
and also, when asked about Benioff’s reference to GRRM telling them about “this”:
“If I start to comment on what might or might not happen in scenes that I have not written yet, I will be ‘spoiling’ my own books.”
June 17, 2015 — 12:19 PM
Terry says:
It’s not unusual for our tastes to change dramatically once we have experienced actual loss of loved ones or near-death ourselves. I have never watched GoT past about the first half-hour of the first show because I just don’t need that shit in my life. I’ve lost too many loved ones and even though I’m generally healthy as the proverbial horse, enough physical pain and distress that I don’t enjoy seeing others put through it, even fictionally (I confess I had a really hard time finishing “Blackbirds.”) It worries me that so many millions have no problem with it at all. Add to all that this series’ treatment of women (I read several viewers’ blogs & tweets daily) and I *really* don’t need it. You’re fine. You’ll use that time to do other, more worthy things.
June 15, 2015 — 11:05 AM
Gareth Skarka says:
I gave up reading after Book 4, when it became obvious that Martin was no longer being edited, and he was going to be allowed to inflate what should be 300-page books into 1200+ pages, because they were popular and selling well. Add to that an increase of hearing his actual thoughts — via his Livejournal and in interviews and such — which convinced me that he is, in fact, a living embodiment of some of the, well, “neckbeard-ier” corners of the tabletop RPG communit… and, well, I just didn’t feel the need to go on.
I stuck with the show, mostly because of the quality of production and performance that you cited. Love me some Dinklage.
After this season, though… I’m not sure if I’m 100% done (that will depend on where my head is at when it returns), but I’m certainly far less likely to continue. As I said on twitter, this season the show, for me, became “A Jump Of Sharks.”
June 15, 2015 — 11:07 AM
terribleminds says:
I’m actually a fan of his LJ, really, and I think GRRM is pretty great — his latest missives against the Sad Puppies have been a work of logical art. (And I’ll never not be a fan of WILD CARDS.)
June 15, 2015 — 2:11 PM
Gareth Skarka says:
Agreed on the SP take-downs, and for me, ARMAGEDDON RAG will always be one of my touchstones… its just that his LJ occasionally hits a tone that reminds me of some of my less-favorite segments of the gaming audience (not Gaters, though. They’re a thing entirely unto themselves).
June 15, 2015 — 3:28 PM
Sean Cummings says:
I play Clash of Clans while it’s on in the background. This hasn’t been a very good season. I got the feeling they threw in some weiner at the end during Cersei’s naked walk of shame to placate the full frontal male wang deficit that his been there since season one.
June 15, 2015 — 11:09 AM
Kristin Mireles (@kristinmireles) says:
*Cue scene from South Park: [The word “weiner” sung to the tune of the title song.]
June 18, 2015 — 10:10 PM
Maggie says:
I watched up to the episode before Sansa married Ramsay. We tend not to watch as it airs, but PVR it and watch it either later that night or the next day. I saw the spoilers in my Facebook feed pop up almost instantly and… well, that was my breaking point. This season has had me increasingly disillusioned with the show, as it has continually pushed my sense of credulity to the point of breaking. The deus ex cluteus of certain events — it just so /happens/ to be Jorah that recognizes and kidnaps Tyrion, the Sons of the Harpy are this ultra-competent organization of boogeymen who can take out an entire armed patrol of Unsullied — you know, the guys who are the most feared force in Essos, even moreso than the Dothraki…
Yeah.
It’s getting to the point where it’s hard to notice the difference between what should be happening and gratuitous, purposeless violence. The biggest example I can think of is, as you mentioned, Arya goes blind. Honestly, that has nothing to do with her being a girl and needing violence or injury inflicted on her. It’s a part of the depersonalization, the mental breaking she’s undergoing as an assassin-in-training at the House of Black and White. I don’t think it would be any different a storyline if, say, she had been Bran or Rickon. But who can tell anymore?
And that’s the problem. Who can tell the difference between violence with a purpose, and what’s put there for sheer shock value and gut-punching the audience?
Rick’s going back and forth on watching the last couple of episodes, but he’s pretty done with it now himself. He gave it one episode after Sansa’s rape, but that one turned him off from the show as thoroughly as the spoilers did for me. Gilly’s near-rape, the Sand Snake’s pointless strip tease, and Sansa’s complete helplessness were the sticking points. We haven’t watched it since, though the episodes are on our box, waiting. I told him I’m not going to judge if he wants to finish out the season, but I will not be watching them with him.
June 15, 2015 — 11:34 AM
B says:
Agreed! When you realize no character is safe, you get invested in the ones you care about even more, on the edge of your saet, worried for them… but when you realize almost every character will most likely die, and especially in such seemingly pointless ways, you just stop caring. And when you follow a character’s storyline for season after season, watching the build-up and wondering where it will lead, only to have it end in a pointless death, you end up wondering why you spent so much time watching them in the first place. What was the point?
And the thing about shock value is that it’s only shocking if it’s a surprise. And really, who is surprised anymore? Killing characters left and right makes a story just as predictable as always saving them.
And all the suffering? They’re filling up a lot of ‘meh’ with a cringe-fest.
The show was way more fun when it was about mystery and intrigue. Now it’s just a bunch of random people killing each other for power which, while perhaps true to life, isn’t particularly compelling. Because the thing is… I just don’t care anymore who wins.
June 15, 2015 — 11:41 AM
Trevor Curtis says:
I had a feeling that once the writers were allowed to go off book,this show was going to tank in the rape/death department.For those whining about lack of well done TV, or even genre TV, may I recommend Sons of Anarchy, which at least treated character death as meaningful.I mean, nobody ever grieves on GoT. If you want well done genre TV, Sense8 is the best thing the Wachowskis have done since the Matrix. Also, Justified is proof you can do a show based on books, and still keep the original spirit intact. And thank you,Gareth for putting the period on my problems with GRRM.
June 15, 2015 — 11:44 AM
Michelle says:
I am FAR too stubborn to stop watching it, but I am not far behind you. What can we possibly have to look forward to when killing Jon basically said the few characters I am still invested in will most likely be killed in graphic and disturbing ways? Sansa is probably knocked up by crazy face now.
June 15, 2015 — 11:44 AM
M.A. Kropp says:
Yeah. I quit watching after the first season myself. It was just– too. Too everything. All the things you talked about here were things I could see happening as the show went on, and I have better things to do with my time. Glad I made that decision. But, as you also say, if it’s your thing, that’s great. I’m sure there’s stuff I read, watch, whatever that someone else thinks is terrible. To each his own, as they say.
June 15, 2015 — 11:59 AM
Beth Bishop (@BethBWrites) says:
Years ago, my hubs read the first four books (are there more now?). He told me he was done because everyone who was remotely decent died. I stopped watching The Sopranos, Weeds, and Sons of Anarchy for similar reasons. I just got to the point where I thought, “These people are horrible. Why am I rooting for them? As a woman, I really should be appalled by most of this.” So, I quit. I’d rather watch Food Network, Nick, Jr., or just go play a game or read a book anyway.
June 15, 2015 — 12:01 PM
timetravellingbunny says:
“He told me he was done because everyone who was remotely decent died. ”
That’s not even remotely true. Why do people say such things and ridiculously exaggerate like that? The only notable characters who died that I would call good or decent were Ned, Robb, Catelyn (who is not even… entirely dead), Oberyn and Beric, plus a couple of supporting characters in books 4 and 5. And several very loathsome villains have also died. There are lots of likable, good and decent characters who are still alive in the books, including the majority of the original main characters.
June 15, 2015 — 4:14 PM
Brian Switzer says:
I feel like your problem should with George RR Martin, not the GoT TV show. Nearly every scene you object to is far more graphic and painful to read in the original. Cersei’s shame walk? That was an entire chapter in Dances with Dragons, and she endured far more humiliation. The TV show can’t wander far from the text less hundreds of thousands of people leap up from kneeling in front of shrines of Martin and scream in unison “That wasn’t in the book!”
I am with you in regards to the deaths of the characters though. I’m not generally a fan of fantasy but wanted to see what all the fuss was about in the lead up to the series I sat down and read Game of Thrones, and loved it. The further I got the less I liked it though. What began as a tale of the Starks of Winterfell (primarily) devolved quickly into a series where all the Starks were dead, on the run and presumed dead, or living life as someone else. There was no one left to root for save Tyrion.
June 15, 2015 — 12:06 PM
terribleminds says:
Maybe, but maybe not. Sometimes books can contextualize things in a way that a TV show cannot, because novels provide an internal dimension. They have oxygen built into their structure. Less so with TV. And GRRM — GoT aside, WILD CARDS is one of my favoritest things ever.
June 15, 2015 — 12:29 PM
christophergronlund says:
WILD CARDS. Damn, I’d love to see The Great and Powerful Turtle on a big screen. (Or even a big television…)
June 15, 2015 — 12:39 PM
timetravellingbunny says:
No, it shouldn’t, because the problem is not in “how detailed and graphic it was” – especially not when the details are about the feelings of the victim, as in that Cersei chapter in ADWD! It’s about good storytelling, which is utterly absent in Game of Thrones season 5, unlike the books.
“What began as a tale of the Starks of Winterfell (primarily) devolved quickly into a series where all the Starks were dead, on the run and presumed dead, or living life as someone else. There was no one left to root for save Tyrion.”
Really?! So people cannot root for Brienne (who is not an incompetent brute in the books), Samwell, Davos, Dany (who is not boring and one-dimensional in the books), Jaime (who is not an incompetent moron in the book and has had a very interesting development – and has of lately been much more likable than Tyrion), Arianne (who exists in the books), Asha (who is a charismatic badass warrior and potential queen in the books and does not run from Ramsay’s dogs, Theon (who actually has a good redemptive arc in the books), Stannis (who does not burn his daughter and is not a moron and an incompetent military commander in the books), or, yes, Arya Stark, Sansa Stark (who is not a moron with inexplicable motivations in the books, did not marry Ramsay and has not been raped) or Bran Stark (who is actually doing things in the books), who are all three clearly in their training stages and being mentored in the arts of assassination and stealth/politics/magic, respectively, before they take the center stage whih they will no doubt do in the last part of the series, since the books have actual character arcs and narrative logic, unlike the show? Not to mention that other guy that nobody believes to be permanently dead, who actually has a brain and does things in the books other than just waive a sword around?
June 15, 2015 — 12:34 PM
timetravellingbunny says:
Plus, I forgot to mention Barristan – not dead in the books, has a major role; Mance – not dead in the books (as far as we know), has a major role; Doran – does important things in the books and is not just some guy sitting and being incompetent…
June 15, 2015 — 1:24 PM
Kristin Mireles (@kristinmireles) says:
Bunny, you are quickly becoming my favorite person! Also, why CAN’T they go into more detail about the book characters’ backstories and inner thoughts on the show? Obviously, they can’t have them projecting their thoughts to the audience (too cheesy), but they can have flashbacks, and either weave important points into the dialogue (like they did when Dany’s brother was “crowned”) or use facial expressions and body language to get the point across. One gets the impression that the lead writers are sadistic, misogynistic little boys in men’s bodies who have the attention span of three-year-olds, which they assume all the viewers have, as well.
June 18, 2015 — 10:28 PM
Eva Therese says:
*slow clap* I’m on the fence on whether I’ll watch the shown to the end, but I will keep reading the books. They have plenty of characters I love and storylines to keep me hooked.
When I read the books and got to the part where Arya was blinded, I was so angry, I wanted to throw the book out the window and possibly also fly to the US and find GRRM and throw him out a window. But I kept reading and something like 400 pages into the last book [huge spoiler, go look it up yourself if you can’t wait] and it made me so happy, that I didn’t give up.
Also, his whole debate keeps reminding me of a quote from Welcome to Night Vale. “Death is only the end if you assume the story is about you.” Now, I don’t think that the character who everyone are so upset about dying is really dead, but even if they are, they story doesn’t end there. There is still a war and the White Walkers and shit to deal with and someone else will have to step up to deal with it or at least try. (Maybe the book will end with Walkers having taken over everything and the world being cast into eternal winter. I don’t think so, but the possibility exist.) ASoIaF is the only story I can think of, where it is so clearly spelled out that any one character can die, because the world does not revolve around any of them, it marches on with or without them, just like in real life. To my mind, that’s the real brutality.
June 15, 2015 — 4:58 PM
Xagzan says:
I don’t know that I’m going to stop watching, but I completely agree with all your points regardless. Fatigue was just the word I had in mind watching last night. I realized, I didn’t even care about Shireen’s death, or Selyse(?), or Stannis, or even Jon Snow (though mostly cause of a-holes spoiling it all season long, so it wasn’t even a shock). It was just a matter of watching calmly and going, “There goes that one. And that one. And another.”
And after the writers spent this entire season dismantling all the progress Sansa had made last season–hell, through the whole series–she didn’t even have the agency to effect her own liberation. It was Theon’s doing. I noticed that as well. Sansa’s not even in my top 3 favorite characters, but FFS with this forced regression.
On top of that, the episode wasn’t even that good. A million and one dangling plot threads and unanswered questions, way more than a season finale should allow.
Like I said, I doubt I’ll stop watching, because if there really are only 2 season left, might as well finish it up, but I’m approaching next season with a preemptive sense of fatigue at all the audience middle fingers and increasingly questionable writing choices.
June 15, 2015 — 12:12 PM
Laura says:
You aren’t the first I’ve seen post these sentiments since the finale. To me, one of the joys of any story is developing some investment in the characters, good and bad. Game of Thrones dares you to do so, and then punishes you for it. It might make me a weenie, but I was out at Ned Stark’s untimely demise. I am not sorry, either
June 15, 2015 — 12:20 PM
Wilfredo says:
I wonder how many epic tvshows and movies would never have been made if the people back then were as sensitive as this current generation is? I bet Roots would have been met with a wave of SJW’s bemoaning the treatment of black actors recreating an obvious white mans revisionists version. GOT speaks to a time in our own history when women and children were treated terribly by todays standards. we need these shows to keep us in touch with our past.
this person didn’t even get some of the facts straight.
Sansa was never in any risk of being killed. it was right there in the text.
she is needed or else she would kill her, but because she is needed she cannot be killed….harmed, maybe but not killed.
Its hard to take anything said here seriously when the writer is so obviously leaving things out and changing events to match their position.
The fact is that this show needs to treat people (all people) terribly because thats how life was in our history
Where were you all when a man was castrated, and then mocked? where was all the outrage then?
this show is an equal opportunity murderer.
June 15, 2015 — 12:23 PM
Eva Therese says:
“the writer”? His name is Chuck. Or Wendig. Or some unflattering but loving nickname having to do with his beard. You really must be new here, if you don’t know that and also, if you don’t know Chuck’s thoughts on your defence of all that rape. Spoiler: He thinks it makes you sound kinda gross. http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2015/05/21/your-defense-of-that-rape-scene-makes-you-sound-kinda-gross/
June 15, 2015 — 4:15 PM
timetravellingbunny says:
Oh, the “realism” argument, or “it was like that in real world history”. OK then: tell me one real life historical monarch who burned his own child, let alone his only child and heir, because he lost supplies and the weather was bad and he needed to win some battle.
Or, tell me the real life historical highborn women who willingly married into the family of their enemies because they wanted *revenge* (but had no idea how to get it, and then had to be saved since they had absolutely no plan).
How are any of those things even remotely realistic?
It’s hilarious that people are using the “realism” and “history” argument to justify completely illogical and unrealistic storylines from this season.
And if the show is so realistic, then why does Tyrion get freed from slavery after hitting a slaver, why is he immediately accepted by the queen whose family was murdered by his family members and who has no reason to trust him, why is he now embraced by everyone, apparently, in Meereen, and given a powerful position, after being there for, what, two days? What’s realistic about that wish fulfillment fanfic? What about Bronn’s amazing antidote, or the woman who poisons him just to make him tell her she’s beautiful?
June 15, 2015 — 4:23 PM
swazzy says:
I guess Toni Morrison’s Beloved is bad, irresponsible torture porn because it combines brutal historical fiction with… well, fiction. Or Frankenstein. Or hundreds of other fantastic novels.
This argument is all over the internet lately when it comes to GoT discussions, and it’s a terrible one. You are allowed to pick and choose pieces of history to weave into your fiction, even terrible ones. I’ve seen people (or more accurately, “internet commentators”) argue that GRRM *should* have just eliminated rape from the human experience in his fiction since he made the choice to also include dragons.
There is certainly valid GoT criticism (the original post that brought me here, for example). There is also GoT criticism that is absurd and dangerously close to art policing (the post that made me write this message, for example).
June 22, 2015 — 5:52 PM
timetravellingbunny says:
This is such a ridiculous Straw Man reply that I don’t even know where to begin, since it has absolutely nothing with anything that I said.
Did you even read my post before replying?
What does any of what you wrote here have to do with the problems I mentioned, which is, you know, that the above mentioned GoT season 5 storylines are examples of TERRIBLE WRITING that fails at every level: not only it has none of the realism or historical accuracy that show defenders use to defend these storylines (Sansa’s rape, burning of Shireen), but they utterly fail in terms of logic, consistent characterization, plausible character motivations, narrative structure and in every other way.
If you think that pointing out that something is TERRIBLE WRITING and torture porn/done for shock value with no concern for characterization and logic (Sansa’s rape, Stannis burning Shireen) or a ridiculously unrealistic fanboy masturbatory fantasy (Tyrion’s storyline this season) or simply a terribly written pointless dreck with the purpose of showing boobs (the Tyene/Bronn scene, but the entire Dorne storyline this season was bad quality and pointless) is “art policing”, well, I don’t know what to do. Why don’t we abolish every criticism then, because, according to you, it’s “art policing”?
June 23, 2015 — 9:27 AM
Selene Grace Silver says:
Your post brings to mind John Gardner, who would agree. Writers of fiction (books, film, television, games) lost an important guiding voice on storytelling when he died too young. Fortunately, his wise words remain for us to read. http://www.amazon.com/Moral-Fiction-John-Gardner-ebook/dp/B00BQ4NA1K/
June 15, 2015 — 12:24 PM
JQ Davis says:
Thanks for the link.
June 16, 2015 — 1:47 AM