This is what I imagine it’s like to be a teacher in America:
It’s like trying to bring God to the apes. You don’t descend into their habitat but rather, ship the apes by bus to you. There, you try illuminate the apes — or chimps, or orangutans — and deliver wisdom unto them, but let’s be honest: apes don’t give a grunting squat about God or any illumination you aim to give them. They’re apes, for Chrissakes. They just want to fling shit and pick ticks and eat bananas and ball each other. Because they are apes. And so day in, day out, you try your hardest to “get through” to these ooking primates, and every once in a while you manage to connect with one and you think, “That one, that one may just evolve into higher creature.” But for the most of the time, you’re just scrubbing ape poop out of your hair and trying to remember exactly which one of them taught the others to play with matches. After a few years of this, you’re either a hardened cynic, a battle-torn skeptic, a who-gives-a-shit-laissez-faire pacifist or a twitching pee-stained educator with ape-caused Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.
I say this having been one of those apes.
I was a pretty good student and, frankly, not that bad of a kid. Even still, school kinda sucked. I didn’t want to be there. Few of my fellow students wanted to be there. Already that’s a barrier for the teacher: even your best and brightest students would rather be anywhere else in the world.
So, I’m sympathetic to teachers. I do not doubt that it can be rewarding, and I also know that some teachers in this area get paid pretty well (too well, if you read and believe all the angry “We Hate Teachers” signs), but even still, anybody who would paint for you a picture that teaching is some kind of joyous cakewalk has never washed chimpanzee vomit out of their knickers.
And so we come to this news story.
Basic gist: teacher writes a mostly anonymous blog about all kinds of stuff and sometimes writes about educational woes — she calls out (not by name) whiny, lazy kids and their buddy-buddy parents. Someone (a parent?) finds the blog, casts it far and wide, brings it to the attention of the school board and principal, and wham, the teacher is escorted from the building and may end up getting fired.
Do I think her blog was the best idea? No, I guess not.
Do I think she’s wrong? Ehhh. No, no, I do not.
I am not a teacher. I do not spend day in and day out with kids. But this teacher? She teaches at my old high school. I remember what we shitheads were like back then, and I wouldn’t blame the teachers for getting all frowny-faced about us. And for fear of sounding like an old man (kids today with their video music and their cocaine hoverboards!), I think kids today are a lot worse than when I was a brash young snotwipe.
I suspect that kids seem worse today because my generation of aforementioned brash young snotwipes are having kids, and given how most generations are watered-down piss-poor facsimiles of their elders, well, this isn’t good news. I go out in public too often and where once I saw parents being parents to their children — because they are children — I now see parents locked in weak-kneed negotiations. We were in Hawaii and we were at this lighthouse slash bird sanctuary and these parents come up with their poor little squalling toddler who is throwing an epic mega ultra shit-fit… and what was their response?
It was not:
a) To soothe the child by making parental soothing noises — “Shhh. Shhh.”
b) To be firm and disciplined — “Stop crying or I give your sister to the gulls.”
It was, instead:
c) To say, “If you don’t stop crying, we’re going to have to begin a timeout situation.”
What the fuck does that mean? I’m sorry, are you trying to use adult logic and terminology to calm a blubbering toddler? Has that worked in any universe? Are you negotiating? What the crap is “we’re going to have to begin a timeout situation?” Hell, that wouldn’t even calm me down, and I’m in my mid-30s. You tell me that, I will kick you into the ocean.
The toddler didn’t stop because the toddler had no idea what Daddy was even saying. No, the end result was that the toddler kept crying and the parents didn’t even make good on their vaguely-worded, generic threat — they just brought the kid to the lighthouse, tantrum-be-damned. Meaningless threat. Zero consequence.
It feels like some parents never want to admit their kids are, y’know, kids. Imperfect in many ways. They’d much rather spend time defending them (and by proxy, their parenting skills) rather than by correcting problems. When something went goofy when I was a kid, my parents did not rush to my defense. They wanted to know what the hell I did wrong. You know why they did that? Because I probably did some stupid shit. I did stuff wrong all the time! Because I was a kid!
A dumb, chimpy, hormone-addled lackwit.
I’m not saying that parents should be backhanding their kids down the cellar steps or that the only answer is tough love and no compassion — I think parents should stand by their children when it is called for and I think parents should be sympathetic to the fact that being a kid kind of blows. But that doesn’t mean defending bad behavior. That doesn’t mean kissing their ass. That doesn’t mean doing their work for them, or excusing their worst instincts or training them to be entitled little jerk-mongers. (Yes, a “jerk-monger” is one who sells jerks at the market. Shut up, you.)
Ten, twenty years ago, a teacher who called out her students like that would’ve stirred the same shit-bloom of shame, except some of that shame would be reserved for the kids who caused it. Parents would go to their kids and ask, “Are you giving Mrs. So-And-So a hard time? Are you? Is it you she’s talking about? Goddamnit, don’t make me slap the homework of your mouth.” Nowadays, parents see this and they immediately rush to bury the teacher because — let’s be honest — she’s telling the truth and they can’t bear the sting of reality carping on about their bullshit parenting.
Do I think the teacher’s attitude is totally awesome? No, probably not. But is it dishonest? Sure ain’t. And in teaching, and in raising our kids — and actually, in practically all levels of American discourse — the one thing we could use more of in our mouths is a fist full of honest medicine.
Then again, what the hell do I know? I am neither parent (yet) nor teacher.
Curious to hear your thoughts on this whole mess. Chime in if you so feel like it.
And no, I’m not talking about all parents, and I’m probably not talking about you, so don’t get offended. I mean, okay, you’re allowed to get offended, I wouldn’t be mad at you for that, but seriously: not worth it.
Sylvia says:
Personally, I think it’s noticeable that these posts are showing up all over and are all written by people who have not parented. Can you make a note to revisit this subject in 16 years?
February 17, 2011 — 4:35 AM
terribleminds says:
@Sylvia:
Hey, you’re right. I have not parented. No plan survives contact with the enemy. I get it, and I get the rankling — it’d be like me coming into someone’s workplace and telling them they’re doing their job wrong at a glance.
But the complexities of that argument is many-headed.
First, if that argument applies to parents, it also applies to teachers. If someone is allowed to say, “Don’t judge until you’ve parented,” fine, but then the same argument goes the other way: “Don’t judge until you spent a year in this classroom.”
Second, it’s not like I’ve never had contact with parents, or children. Hell, I’ve been a kid. And I had two parents. And I have friends who are parents. And family members who are parents. And these people are good parents. You can see that they had a plan or an ethos going into parenthood, and to some degree that plan remains. I also know some teachers. And the horror stories I hear from the front-lines of the Classroom War is insane. I’m not making this stuff up.
Third, I have to live in the world with kids — and, what’s often worse, their parents. Best place to see this writ large is in department stores or grocery stores. We saw a woman the other day who was engaging her child as a child and was sweet and loving and wonderful, and the kid was, in turn, a nice kid of three or four years old. Then you have parents who go too far one way or the other — they either just scream and yell and slam down the crazy iron fist or they acquiesce and treat their kids as if they’re “full voting members” of the family. You can’t be your child’s best friend *and* his parent at the same time. (IMHO, YMMV, etc.)
Maybe this helps, maybe this doesn’t, but by and large this is a reference to the children and parents in my area and in particular, the area surrounding that teacher-blogger’s school (which was, as noted, my school). Around here you have a miasma of spoiled entitlement — lots of new wealth, lots of distant or fractured parenting, lots of best-buddy-parenting. When I hear the teacher say the things she said, I — for good, or for bad — find myself suspecting she’s more right than she is wrong.
— c.
February 17, 2011 — 6:44 AM
Tory Michaels says:
I loved your post and agree with it. I’ve got an almost 5 y/o son and two girls due within the next two months. My boy hasn’t gotten into the classroom yet, just daycare/pre-school at this point but I’m of the mind that it does take a village to raise a child. Timeouts don’t really work, negotiations don’t really work consistently with children that young. Am I a bad parent because I’m glad when my child got bitten in daycare? No – because I asked why and found out he’d been taking toys from other children rather than sharing. With no siblings back then, he had to learn to share somehow. I’m not saying I WANTED him bitten, mind you, but if that’s what it took to start getting it through his head that it wasn’t cool to take stuff from others…so be it.
At least he (generally) says please, thank you and I’m sorry (maybe a little too much). IT should be interesting once he enters the school system.
BTW – love your blog. 🙂
February 17, 2011 — 7:02 AM
terribleminds says:
Other related reading: at Do Some Damage, Teachers Are Not Robots.
Billy Ray Cyrus admits, oops, he’s a bad parent who wanted to be his kid’s best friend.
— c.
February 17, 2011 — 7:14 AM
terribleminds says:
@Tory:
Heh, that’s a funny story, Tory. Which totally rhymes.
Glad you dig the blog.
It’s important to note, too, that I’m not saying the world isn’t home to bad educators. I’ve had teachers who weren’t great, and I’ve had some that were downright miserable. But for the most part, they were capable, good, or even great. Teachers these days are getting a bad rap, I think.
— c.
February 17, 2011 — 7:17 AM
Becky says:
As a step-parent of a child who is in high school in this district, I can’t disagree with the teacher’s observations. There are indeed some good kids in these schools. But what she describes exists in many.
The real shame of it is that as a teacher, there are better and more effective ways she could handle the situation. Angry spewing of words rarely helps solve anything.
What I find most interesting is that the teacher’s behavior is likely similar to what she’s complaining about in the kids. I wonder what lesson they will take away from all of this?
February 17, 2011 — 7:18 AM
Sheryl Nantus says:
While I think the teacher was *nuts* to vent publically, I’m with her on the problems and the lack of solutions.
In my area, at least, it’s more important for the kids to get into FOOTBALL than actually get an education. We had a near-riot nearby when a school demanded that all the kids on the football/cheerleading/band have a D average to continue. The parents started rioting at the meetings about how CRUEL this was and how HORRIBLE it would be for their kids if they couldn’t play football/cheer/play in the band.
Talk about screwed up priorities. Given the growing level of illiteracy I truly believe that the US will keep falling down the education ladder unless teachers and parents step up and start putting the education ahead of the social activities and the “bestest friends” approach.
jmo, of course.
February 17, 2011 — 7:26 AM
Kate Haggard says:
On what planet are teachers paid too much. I was a tot quite a while ago and I still clearly remember my teachers struggling but still pumping their meager pay back into their classrooms because the alternative would be everyone going without. If I got peanuts and no respect for work I’d get a little snarky too.
Although I can’t fault this particular teacher for feeling the way she does, I do think she got a huge lesson in Internets 101. True anonymity on the internet takes a lot of maintenance – and using your first name and details about your personal life aren’t really the way to go.
February 17, 2011 — 7:39 AM
Julie says:
A couple of weeks ago Livvie asked me if I’m her friend. I said, “No. I’m your mother.”
Know what? She seemed pretty okay with that.
She’s in this stage right now where she ignores me or even defies me, and when the inevitable conclusion occurs (broken toy, injured brother…) she yells, “Sorry!” At which point I explain that sorry is not a “get out of jail free” card.
I think you’re going to be a fine dad, Chuck.
February 17, 2011 — 7:42 AM
Michael LaRocca says:
I have a bit of advice to any teachers reading this. Throw eggs at your students. It’s great fun watching them leap out of the way. Oh, and my second bit of advice is, boil them first. (The eggs, not the students.)
Also, gotta agree with Kate here. My wife’s been a grossly underpaid teacher for over 25 years. (I switched careers after four.)
February 17, 2011 — 7:46 AM
McDroll says:
You may not be a parent (yet….but it’s getting closer) or a teacher…but you are spot on with this post. Think I’ll print it out and hang it on the staffroom wall….eh..actually have you been bugging our staffroom because that’s how it usually goes these days?
Parents more and more will excuse increasingly outrageous behaviour in their children. The negotiate with the child but then don’t even carry out the sanctions they are discussing. They give the child the responsibility of making choices when the child is not at the stage of development to even understand what a choice is. They do this to excuse themself from being an adult – the person who makes the right (or sometimes wrong) decision about their child’s life.
I have sat through so many meetings, listening to why a child’s behaviour is the school’s fault because we are not providing the child with enough choice or understanding their sweet little personality (yeah..that’s why they locked the toilet doors from the inside and threw toilet paper all over the place)…….
I don’t mind parents who make mistakes..that’s to be human….but I do mind parents who put all responsibility onto the shoulders of their child and refuse to give them guidance and teach them basic social rules and lifeskills.
And I have been a parent for 16 years and a teacher for……..27 years…..
February 17, 2011 — 7:47 AM
terribleminds says:
@McDroll, @Julie —
Yeah, damn, we’re counting down the days until the third trimester.
/panic
— c.
February 17, 2011 — 7:50 AM
Nicola Vincent-Abnett says:
I came this close (holds tips of thumb and forefinger micrometres apart) to joining this particular fray; I even wrote a couple of long paragraphs in this natty blue box. I have resisted. Try not to allow this debate to rear its ugly head again, or I might have to leave a long, probably dull, and almost certainly horribly self-righteous diatribe on your otherwise indecently decent blog.
Thank you,
Nik
February 17, 2011 — 7:54 AM
terribleminds says:
@Nik —
Um, okay? I’m not sure on which side of the debate you lurk, but… sorry? Thank you? You’re welcome?
— c.
February 17, 2011 — 7:56 AM
terribleminds says:
I think we can all agree that, yeah, the method of the message was, uhhh, not the smartest.
The question really becomes: is the content of the message valid? Valuable? Is there truth in there?
— c.
February 17, 2011 — 8:01 AM
Tony Lane says:
As a parent I agree with you. As somebody who has heard several members of family and friends that are teachers complain about their students I agree with you. As a Masters student who has the urge every lecture to tell the rude people at the back to STFU I agree with you. I could go on, but yes I agree with you.
In these litigious times you have to either completely anonymous and never mention specifics, or never tweet/blog/facebook anything disparaging about any aspect of your work life. I have known instances at my place of work where a public facing social networking remark has been the straw that led to disciplinary proceedings. Freedom of speech? Not if you upset anyone 🙁
February 17, 2011 — 7:54 AM
sammy says:
As a teacher, parent, and former social worker, I agree with what you said completly. My parenting skills are not perfect, my children are not perfect, and my teaching skills are not perfect. However, teachers (the good ones) are called to teach and that’s why they do it. The ones who are cynical should find another profession. It is not for the weak. It is a job for those who see the potential in children and who try to make those children see it, too.
You will be a good parent, I think. And yes, time outs do work as long as you are consistent and start doing it when they are 2 years old and stick to your guns. Negotiating with children doesn’t work. I suggest you read “Happiest Toddler on the Block” and “One, Two, Three, Magic.” I don’t agree with everything in these books, but they give some good, doable behavior techniques a parent can use to tame the little chimps.
February 17, 2011 — 8:07 AM
Nik Vincent says:
I laugh at myself and at the vehemence I feel when confronted by the vagaries of modern parenting. I’ve been banging on about this subject for almost all of the twenty-one years since I began having and raising children. My youngest is now an adult, so I cheerfully hand the baton off to others.
For the record, my eldest is studying at Oxford University, where she won an exhibition last year. My youngest is an A-grade student in her final year at school, from which she will graduate at the top of her class. She has already appeared in her first film in a lead acting role.
Perhaps you need no longer wonder where I stand on this subject.
February 17, 2011 — 8:08 AM
Paul DeLaurentis says:
@Kate: Take a look at the salaries of Pennridge, Central Bucks, and Council Rock school districts. Wood shop teachers making 100k…
Anyway, Chuck, I agree completely. I have always tried to look at parenting from my kids’ point of views. If they do something wrong I try my best to see why they did what they did. That in no way excuses them…it just helps me stay calmer and punish more appropriately. It also lets me talk to my kids and help them understand what they did wrong.
I’m all for discipline…as long as it’s not without discussion. Sure you have your “BECAUSE I SAID SO!” moments, but for the most part communication is key.
I absolutely hate the parents that think that their kid’s shit doesn’t stink.
February 17, 2011 — 8:26 AM
terribleminds says:
@Paul —
That seems like an incredibly healthy attitude to have with your kids. If you don’t mind, I’m going to steal it. 🙂
— c.
February 17, 2011 — 8:44 AM
M says:
I’m with you, and I *am* a parent — as it happens, to two very well behaved children who are a joy (most of the time) and who don’t treat the world like it owes them a living (most of the time.) I think they probably behave nicely and are appreciative of what they have and are respectful to their teachers because I did my best to teach them to be that way, but it could just be that I got lucky in the kid lottery.
Should she have vented in a private blog? Probably. Doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have been found out anyway. Are there consequences for what you say on the internet, freedom of speech or not? Definitely. But was she…wrong? I don’t think so.
February 17, 2011 — 8:32 AM
Anthony says:
If she wrote the blog anonymously, and didn’t name names, then the people who are taking offense are the people hearing the bell of truth. I mean, sure, there could be something else going on. If she is giving very accurate descriptions, or hiding in the HTML and Tags “Johnny Johnson from Xavier High 308b Homeroom, this is about you”, that takes that away. But if she is just a random educator talking about students in general, I don’t see how you can be enraged and not be asked how you /know/ they’re talking about your kid.
Like Chuck, I’m not a parent, nor am I a teacher. I am a student in college however. A bit old for your normal college student, but still a student. It terrifies me what I see in some of my classes, high level classes too, from students. They don’t hear things the professor has just said 3-5 times. They don’t grasp simple concepts. They also just expect to be treated more than fairly, expecting a curve to be applied, or wondering why they lost points for turning in a 3 page paper for an assignment that clearly said 8-10 pages.
The level of entitlement, and just childishness, is sickening and exhausting. Professors in a major university are forced to treat their classes like we are still in the 9th grade, and those classes where the professor does dare us to act like adults, and treats us like adults, are so few and far between that I’ve gone out of my way to take classes with them – very hard stressful classes – just to feel like I was an adult going for my “big boy” degree.
I have a friend who is a cop on campus, and I can’t even figure out where to begin with some of the horror stories he’s told me. I don’t mean the usual college student dumb weekend BS either, but the way they try to get out of things at times too.
Seriously, if some of these students represent who is going to be running things in the near future, well, to quote an old’ish animated movie, “I weep for the species”
February 17, 2011 — 8:43 AM
Meredith says:
I just love your blog. And this post was awesome. Yes, yes, 1000 times yes. I can understand why the teacher did what she did. Was the forum the wrong one? Of course, just like I’d expect to get in some serious trouble if my boss found out I was anonymously badmouthing clients online. Common sense says … don’t do this. But underneath that, I suspect the teacher’s frustrations are justified.
I’m only the mother to a toddler, so we haven’t entered the really difficult phase yet (though sadly I see little hints that it’s not too far off on the horizon … fun times!) But I already know the type of mother I am, and my daughter isn’t going to be pleased to find out it’s the type of mother who doesn’t put up with her shit. That’s the type of mother I had, and I honestly hope that’s the type of mother my daughter will be some day. Overly permissive, weak-spined parenting drives me crazy, and it seems like that’s becoming the norm.
February 17, 2011 — 8:45 AM
Me, myself and I says:
I am mixed! She is supposed to be in a position to guide these young people and paid for it. Blogging insults on a semiprivate blog with her real name and photo on it is not good judgment. But I truly don’t feel that any of what she said is untrue. If I ever spoke to a teacher or my parents the way that I have heard my childrens’ friends (and let’s face it, my own children) my parents would have slapped the taste out of my mouth.
I am recalling an old joke about unarmed policemen in England…STOP or I will say STOP again. Big deal!
Schedules don’t seem to any longer allow for follow through if your whole heart isn’t in it.
Is your star sports player going to miss the big game because they were disrespectful? And risk a loss? Are you going to keep your child from play practice or other activities? What if the coach gets upset with them?
I believe that if my child who forgets his lunch doesn’t get lunch today, he will remember tomorrow to bring his lunch. (Hey is kinda sucked watching my friends eat.) but the school will feed him because it is cruel. Lesson learned? = It doesn’t matter what I do. Someone will save me.
Back to the point in my scattered rant… aside from freedom of speech her methods are askew, but her hands are a bit tied but the cruelty of demanding responsibility and respect.
(steps off box)
February 17, 2011 — 8:46 AM
Delia says:
Hello. Four kids, here. (And, yes, still happily married, thank you for asking.) You are 100% correct. I’d blog about it, but you said it better, so I’ll just give you the parental stamp of approval and move on.
February 17, 2011 — 8:47 AM
DeAnna says:
Meredith – IMO, the hardest part is the diapers. But my daughter’s not a teen yet, so eh.
What makes me shake my head is that people are mad that the teacher blogged about it. It always gets me. What, we don’t like that you don’t like your working conditions, so we’re just going to call you unprofessional until you go away? That’s like your employer making you sign a statement that you won’t talk about how much money you make. What bullshit.
Teaching shouldn’t be done by what we perceive as a bunch of straightlaced martyrs for the cause, with low pay, terrible hours, bratty kids, and a mandate to shut the hell up about it because we don’t want to hear it, it’s unprofessional.
Not to say that there aren’t good teachers, but as long as we’re creating an environment where good teachers are driven out in frustration and kids are encouraged to screw around, it’s no wonder that our test scores fall behind.
February 17, 2011 — 9:02 AM
Andrew says:
Well said Chuck.. I wholeheartedly agree.
I have never understood the desire to be a friend to your child. Friendly? Yes of course, but a friend I think is kind of undercutting the more profound possibilities of being a parent. I can be friends with so many people in the world, but there is only one person in the world I can call my daughter, one my father and one my mother. I think valuing that is one of the best things I can do. There are traditions and ideas that can only be applied to those relationships and I revel in living them without imposing my own insecurities about being ‘liked’ in the moment.
What I find more interesting about this whole issue is how everyone is quick to say she shouldn’t have had the blog at all and that it was dumb of her. I am less certain. I don’t quite see the problem of her having the blog and complaining about her students in public.
I’m more concerned about the people that obviously went looking for it, what motivates you to look for the blog in the first place? Maybe there are issues that happened in the classroom that led someone to suspect that she was being an ass on the internet, but why care? How does it benefit anyone? Even if you suspect she ‘hates me’ or ‘has it out for my child,’ or whatever.
The way the whole thing is playing out seems to be an exercise in the politics of high school – emotionally charged but solving nothing.
February 17, 2011 — 9:06 AM
Paul DeLaurentis says:
@Andrew: It’s a terribly fine line between being a parent and a friend. My father and I are great friends…but I always understood (and he reinforced it with action and communication) that he was a parent first, friend second. You HAVE to be friends with your children or they won’t want to come to you with their problems. They won’t trust that you’ll give them the right advice.
It’s also very hard, as a parent, not to want your children to think of you as their friend. Your children are a lot like you and will likely share a lot of common interests. My 5 year old and I share so much in common that it’s almost impossible, even at such a young age, to keep a firm “parent only” stance. You want to share and experience everything they do as closely as you can through their eyes and if they’re looking at you as “just my dad” they’ll always be guarded in their judgement while around you.
In my experience as a child and as a parent you can definitely be both as long as you set a firm line in the sand between the two and that the child knows where that line is. You can’t deviate much on that line. Your kids have to know just where they stand. Again…it comes down to communication. I always felt like I could tell my parents anything and that they would respond as both a parent and as a friend. I knew and understood that some things I told them would have consequences…but I knew (for the most part) what the consequences would be. I also was well aware that the consequences would be much worse if I told them later rather than sooner.
You have to be involved in every aspect of your child’s life…but you have to be able to offer them a certain amount of trust as they earn it. I firmly believe that kids need to make mistakes in order to learn harsh realities. As long as it doesn’t threaten their life in any way I let my kids do that. I’ve let my kids do some stupid things knowing that they would bump their heads…or fall on their asses…in order to let them experience it. Sometimes it sucked to watch (and sometimes it was funny as hell) but it was worth it to see their little minds process and understand what happened.
I certainly don’t know everything…and I don’t even know if what I’m doing is right. It just feels like the right thing to do and it helps build a better bond in my opinion. Friend when it’s appropriate and parent when it’s necessary.
The grim reality is that there are key moments in your relationship where your children are going to find out certain things the hard way…and you have to let them experience it. When those times happen I want to be their as a friend, mentor, and teacher…not as a stern parent that tells them “I told you so” and then never lets them step out of their comfort zone again. Time seems to hit light-speed as soon as you have kids. A year is a blink. I can’t waste it second-guessing every detail and shielding my kids against every problem that the world will offer them.
February 17, 2011 — 9:57 AM
David says:
Interestingly, my sister was full of the wisdom of treating kids like adults, negotiating with them, realising that they understand the world better than you may think, etc. *until* she had a couple of her own. Then she was disciplining them and ordering their lives with the best of us. She’s still quite progressive in her views on parenting, but she definitely believes in leavening it with a little tough love.
February 17, 2011 — 9:57 AM
Nicole Peeler says:
I had a colleague at my old school (I’m a professor) who said the best thing I’ve heard in response to the tantrum situation you’re describing. He was at an airport, where a toddler was going ape shit, and the mother was just sort of vaguely arguing with him. As if telling the four-year-old, “People are staring, Donnie. What will they think?” is going to be effective. He’s spinning on his head, shouting invectives. He wants people to stare.
Finally, my colleague said something to the woman about controlling her child. Everyone around nodded, clapped, or said, “Yes, please.” The woman stared at my colleague like he’d slapped her and said, “You don’t know what it’s like. You probably don’t even have children.”
And ya know what, she was right. He doesn’t have children. But we’re college professors. So he looked at her, and he said, “No ma’am. I have YOUR children.”
We’re seeing what you’re describing–the lack of responsibility on the part of students who are no longer children, and the helicopter parenting that engendered it–at the college level. It’s certainly not all students or parents, but it’s definitely some. And what’s sort of annoying when they’re in elementary school is no longer annoying when they’re 18. Because then it’s not about us being annoyed, it’s about them not having the tools they need to be functioning adults: to follow instructions, do what they need to do on time, and take the criticism that will help them.
So, yeah, we’re eventually going to get those parents’ children. And when they don’t do their assignments, or they turn in half-ass work, or they’re otherwise irresponsible or obnoxious, we’re going to fail them. We’re no longer going to suffer for their annoying behavior, they are.
February 17, 2011 — 10:03 AM
Jess Tudor says:
It’s definitely a discussion we need to have, but anyone in the education system has been saying so for years. We give parents the educations they demand for their kids, and that tends to be a bad thing.
I still maintain a woman who admits she skipped school to avoid her students doesn’t know how to manage a classroom and is in the wrong profession, though. I don’t mean it in a bad way, just like I suck at being a good administrative assistant robot and got fired for it because I refused to quit. Not the end of the world, do something else.
February 17, 2011 — 10:07 AM
Marcy says:
Echoing Delia. Mother of three here, one in high school (aka, a poop-throwing ape). Chuck, you’re spot-on. The folks most up in arms over this seem to be parents who think she was talking about their kids — even if she doesn’t actually teach THEIR kids. Guilt often makes people stupid.
February 17, 2011 — 10:10 AM
Jen Forbus says:
Well said, Chuck. I was a teacher once and decided that my sanity was the most important thing. I tried to fight the system and hold the kids to high standards, have them be accountable, challenge them. I was not supported anywhere. Other teachers are tired of fighting the system, the administration is too afraid of the parents, and the parents don’t want their kids to have to make any effort. And, like you said, their little darlings are never wrong.
February 17, 2011 — 10:11 AM
Anthony says:
I’m not a parent or teacher (Nor do I have any particular desire to be either) but I was in school not too terribly long ago, and am in college now, and I agree completely. There were so many instances then of my fellow classmates being complete shit heads and their parents defending them to the death, because their precious little snowflake can do no wrong, and are of course, entitled to whatever they want at that moment. All this accomplishes of course, is making the kid think they can get away with murder as long as they cry to mommy and daddy. Why just the other day, in one of my math classes, a 21 year old college student was practically on her knees pleading to the professor and bemoaning the fact that she wanted “just one more chance to do the online homework” (We already get two or three opportunities to do it, it’s multiple choice, and graded online so you can see exactly what you did wrong. I’m not sure how it could possibly get any easier) because she “only got an 88” and “knew she could at least get a 90 if she could just do it one more time!”. Seriously? A 21 year old adult was bitching and moaning (And borderline crying) and felt like she could get whatever she wanted from the professor? What a brat.
February 17, 2011 — 10:12 AM
matt says:
I’m a new parent, about 3 months now. Although I’m worried about raising a respectable human being, my biggest fear is dealing with other parents. My wife and I were raised old school, blue collar like. It’s not too long before you realize how selfish people can be and how their child can do no wrong. Grow some balls parents, please.
I was also a teacher for a few years. Seems to me parents are expecting teachers to raise their children, because they are too busy working hard to buy jr. the new PS3 or a pony. In either case, our dear friend Mr. Internet has encouraged folks to speak their minds, show their personal side, display their vacation photos. It’s a slippery slope but I still feel that the parents are equally fallible as the teachers. Teachers are paid to educate, not raise your children. Parents should set an example on how to behave in life.
Thank you for your words Mr. Wendig
February 17, 2011 — 10:14 AM
Darren G Miller says:
I’m not a parent, but I spent 14 years teaching high school students and am a former Teacher of the Year, so I do feel I have some insight into the situation.
Do I know the teacher in question? No. For all I know, she could be a terrible teacher that kids who are angels in other classrooms regularly terrorize. Does that happen? Yes. I’ve seen teachers that the kids have fun eating for breakfast, lunch and dinner because they see that it makes that teacher a shivering nervous wreck who jumps at shadows. It’s teenage bullying at its ugliest, but kids see that they are in control and they wreck that teacher.
On the other hand, this teacher could be a good teacher just blowing off steam in some mostly anonymous fashion. Do her blog postings represent good judgement? Not really. But, like Chuck said, they are honest.
Is she right? Yes.
Come on. Everyone was a teenager at some point in time. You remember how shitty you could be towards people you didn’t like: teachers who droned on in a monotone for an hour at a time or gave what you thought was too much homework, the weird kid in the corner who smelled funny, the girl with the bad acne who painted her face like a clown trying to cover it up, basically anyone you decided to be shitty with. Now, some of us were less shitty or shitty with fewer people, but all kids have that capacity. The teen brain just isn’t equipped for the most sound, reasoned judgement yet. The amygdala isn’t fully developed at that age. Teens can be some of the meanest, laziest bastards on the planet.
I truly cared about my students when I was in the classroom. If anything, I cared too much (which is why I ended up as one of the Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder monkeys Chuck mentions above after a former student of mine committed suicide because he couldn’t be in my class anymore). Does that mean that I didn’t see them for the lazy, whiny shitheads they could be when they wanted to? No. I wasn’t blind to that. It was my job in loco parentis to try to help them rise above that and unlock their potential to be the best human beings they could be. Sometimes I succeeded. Sometimes I didn’t. Did I gripe and complain and vent my frustration to my trusted spouse/friends/etc.? Yes. I did vent to the appropriate people. Just not on the internet.
Poor judgement and all, I’m glad she vented on the internet. Teachers are living, breathing human beings with the same frailties as anyone else. Students and especially their parents see them as something different. Obstacles? Adversaries? Clueless Ivory Tower Dwellers?
I hope this incident illuminates a disconnect in education. I sincerely hope it initiates change. I had grown increasingly discontented over my last few years of teaching even before I decided to get out. Education is changing. Kids are always changing, but with technology and parenting today, they are changing in ways that couldn’t be foreseen 15 years ago. Many teachers and administrators are out of touch with the way things work in today’s world. Also, administrators almost always take the word of the parent over that of the teacher, because they know about job security.
If nothing else, this teacher’s 15 minutes of fame may prove slightly more useful to jumpstarting dialogue about a pertinent issue than the 15 minutes that belonged to that guy from Jet Blue or wherever that popped the emergency slide and grabbed some drinks for the road… err, runway.
The other issue here is the use of internet technologies by educators. School districts are woefully unprepared for this issues and policies range from total freedom to banning educators from the use of all social media (yes, some school districts still adopt that draconian policy). I was once called into the principal’s office when a parent discovered that I had a MySpace page (this was years ago, the page was completely anonymous, and I never complained about my students) and also when a parent (hmmm… the same parent actually) discovered that I played… video games (She thought it was a bad example to students if they learned that a teacher played video games (in my free time at home). If only they found out that I also played Dungeons & Dragons.
Like I said before, I cared about my students. Their parents were the ones who made teaching much more difficult than it should have been. I’ve been followed/stalked by parents (the above parent who reported my video game usage – by finding my World of Warcraft account – also followed me to movies). Early in my teaching career, I had a parent pay someone to follow me home and commit some sort of violent act (I discovered the tail and drove until I found some police officers, who caught the guy, then accompanied my wife and I home, checked out house, and escorted us to a hotel for the night, and had a cop park in my yard at night for the rest of the week) because I told the parent that his wife was not telling the truth about something she told her husband I said to her (I had several other parents witness what really happened, who also had to pull this guy off me and call police when he attacked me in my office before paying someone else to hurt me). I always told people that my dream job was teaching at an orphanage.
That said, I support this teacher and hope that something good comes of the whole affair.
Chuck, sorry to write such a long comment .
February 17, 2011 — 10:17 AM
Eddy Webb says:
I know you’re talking about me, Wendig.
February 17, 2011 — 10:18 AM
Tracy says:
I am a middle school teacher with ten years experience. I love teaching. Love it with a passion . And this is the year I may actually quit public school teaching. I have never had a year in which I have been so disrespected and openly abused by my students. I spend my day feeling like an overpaid babysitter when all I want to do is educate. I feel defeated on a daily basis. They talk over my lessons, walk out of the room, listen to ipods, text on their phones, and ulimately very little consequences befall them because so many of them are doing it now, they know the administration can’t deal with them all. The imates are running the assylum. I feel the most sorry for the few really bright, good kids in the bunch who want to learn and are getting screwed out of the opportunity by their classmates. The blame is being placed on teachers and schools for failing students, but truly, the kids I see are failing themselves. We bend over backwards to reach them and they slap our hands away.
February 17, 2011 — 10:21 AM
Aiwevanya says:
Well I’m going to be contrary and come in on the side of negotiating with kids… up to a point. Negotiation is a useful life skill, the ability to compromise, to understand what the other person wants, to understand that the other person is a person, that’s all valuable, and yes children can be taught this very young, kids are brighter than they’re given credit for (for example, when we had the election over here that resulted in a hung parliament me and my partner sat my son down and explained it to him, with the result that his citizenship teacher sent him home with a message that essentially asked us to do more of that because he’d understood it better than students four or five years older than him) anyway my point is that I believe that negotiating is a good thing provided that a few basic rules are followed 1) don’t even start negotiating on anything that you aren’t prepared to, or for one reason or another can’t, compromise on e.g. going to school tomorrow non-negotiable, what’s for dinner? sure, why not. 2) understand the difference between negotiation and bribery, offering rewards for good behavior is bribery, agreeing to exchange one vegetable for another or unloading the dishwasher in place of hoovering is negotiation, there’s some grey area in the middle, but use common sense. 3) make sure there are consequences if the kid doesn’t hold up their end of the bargain and most importantly 4) never negotiate when the kid is already misbehaving, if they try to, tell them that you won’t negotiate until they’re being good. Does this work? well all I can tell you is that it works for me, and despite the fact that I’m criticized for not disciplining him enough (by his father who I share custody with) he’ll stop doing what he’s doing and start behaving when I break out my ‘this is not negotiable’ voice, which I personally count as good discipline, even if I rarely take his toys away from him as punishment or whatever it is disciplining is supposed to be.
February 17, 2011 — 10:33 AM
Paul Acampora says:
Parenting Snapshot: A (mostly) true conversation between me and my kid…
Kid: You and Mom say no to me a lot.
Me: We do.
Kid: Sometimes I don’t even ask because I already know the answer.
Me: I’m glad to hear that.
Kid: Some of my friends’ parents say yes to everything.
Me: I guess God gave you the short straw.
Kid: But it’s weird because I sort of feel like I’m as happy as most of my friends. Maybe I’m even happier.
…. long pause…
Kid: Can I have an iphone?
Me: Are you on drugs?
Kid: Never mind.
February 17, 2011 — 10:34 AM
terribleminds says:
@Paul —
That comment just made me snort at my desk.
Well done.
— c.
February 17, 2011 — 10:36 AM
Dave Turner says:
I smell a book proposal: “Battle Serenade of the Bear Father.”
February 17, 2011 — 10:39 AM
M. McGriff says:
Disclaimer: I’m not a parent, however, I have taken a really active role in raising my younger brother (now 20) and younger sister (17).
With that said, I think parents these days try so hard to be their kid’s friend as opposed to their parent. I totally understand how the teacher feels, though I don’t think the blog thing was the best thing to do. I have friends who are teachers and they tell me all the time that half the problem isn’t with the kids, but with their parents!
Discipline and rearing all begin in the home and if that isn’t taken care of, now a teacher is forced to deal with it. You have to nip certain behaviors in the bud early, otherwise they just snowball. I was never overly mean and I never yelled when I was taking care of my siblings. But I made it clear what behavior would and would not be tolerated. I will listen to what they had to say, but they have to know that I (the adult) have the final say. You may not like it, but such is life!
February 17, 2011 — 11:04 AM
Heather says:
My mother did what I think was a great compromise. She explained her decisions, and made sure I understood why she was doing what she was doing, but the decisions were ultimately hers and that was clear. That way I could understand why something was necessary or bad, which made me far more likely to be a decent kid about it since it didn’t all feel arbitrary. These days I’m so often appalled at how kids have their parents wrapped totally around their little fingers. I remember a couple in a restaurant who kept bribing their kid with candy to get him to stop throwing a tantrum. Naturally all they were teaching him was that tantrums were a guaranteed way to get candy.
February 17, 2011 — 11:13 AM
Pat Edmundson says:
I almost wish this blog were like Facebook so I could “like” some of the comments. [thumbsup!icon]
I like to think that I am a friend to my children. But that’s not a problem since the oxymorons range in age from 28 to 34. By now my parenting skills have done their best and/or worst.
When my now-34YO son was in kindergarten, his teacher punished him for saying “Yes, Ma’am” and “No, Ma’am” to her. This teacher heard from a VERY upset Mama (My Sweet Lady could write some effective invective, which she called NastyGrams.), who told her “It’s OK if you don’t require him to be polite. But don’t punish him for doing what his parents require.”
This same teacher heard from The Mama again when she tried to force our lefty to write with his right hand.
She’s the only teacher with whom we had any real problems. We might occasionally call other teachers idiots (behind their backs), but for the most part, they were OK. Like our parents before us, if we heard that one of our little brats got into trouble at school, the first thing we asked them was “What did you do?” For the most part, our children were well-behaved in public (saving their poo-tossing for home). But some of their classmates seemed to be among those who think the world owes them a living. For that matter, some of MY classmates were like that. But few (if any) of their parents threatened to sue the school if Junior didn’t get an A for showing up now and then.
One of my unofficially adopted daughters is a teacher. She seems to agree with you, Mr Wendig. (May I call you Chuck?) So far, she hasn’t threatened to quit teaching. But there are days when she wonders what insanity made her decide to take up the profession in the first place.
February 17, 2011 — 11:49 AM
Will Hindmarch says:
I think we need to hear more from our teachers, not less. I don’t think hiding the behaviors of students in class is doing anyone much good.
I’m not a parent.
February 17, 2011 — 12:02 PM
matt says:
This incident has actually sparked interesting discussion in my classes this week. Usually when we discuss the implications of social media and internet venting, we’re pointing a finger at kids, reminding them that words have consequences. It was interesting to hear high school students’ take as the receivers on e-vitriol instead of the producers. As for me, I don’t think the teacher should be fired, in part because she’s done her own damage here. Success or failure in the classroom rests on the atmosphere of the classroom–the relationship between students and teachers. Even though her comments were “anonymous,” students are left to wonder whether it was them she was complaining about. And a teacher with a rep for disliking students has either a) a short career or b)a long, miserable, you-know-that-crazy-old-guy-at-your-high-school career.
February 17, 2011 — 12:12 PM
Jennifer says:
Your post is spot-on, Chuck! Except I don’t think she did anything wrong by blogging — and she shouldn’t be upset or surprised by any natural consequences that result from her actions. Otherwise…she’d be a total hypocrite.
As a mama of kiddos in all stages of kiddom right now, ugh. My kids are not perfect. They have done bad things. They have been punished for those bad things. How many parents can actually utter those words? Probably not so many, if what I see when I spend time around my kids’ friends is any indication.
February 17, 2011 — 12:15 PM
miss ash says:
Parenting is possibly the most difficult thing i’ve ever done. And i’ve done a lot of challenging things in my life, and have only parented (step-parented to be precise) for a few years.
It scares me that people react so powerfully to what another person writes. I wonder why we’re not protected by our amendments to write what we want. I get that an organization would not want to employ someone who countered their values but doesn’t performance and common sense play any part in decision making processes?
February 17, 2011 — 12:26 PM
Levi Montgomery says:
Sylvia;
I have parented, to the extent that such a word is even a word. I have raised six children. No longer children, actually, but active, productive, respectful and self-respecting members of the society we live in.
They include one military veteran, three active-duty members of the military, one Army officer, one helicopter pilot, one cyber-intelligence linguist, and one nuclear power plant operator, and yes, there’s obviously some overlap there. They include a record-setting high-school athlete and a marathon runner. They include a four-year participant in the school’s teen court program.
The point is that what my wife and I demanded from them is nothing more, and nothing less, than society has demanded from its adults since society was invented.
The argument that you can’t have an opinion on child rearing until you’ve done it your self is just silly.
February 17, 2011 — 12:39 PM
Julie says:
Chuck, I agree with everything you said. And you’re going to be a very good dad.
My 6yr old son is talky. Very, very talky. His school has a top apple program to encourage good behavior. There’s a color code that comes home on his calendar everyday so we know how he bahaved. Green is good, yellow means he was given several warnings and red is bad. He got 7 yellows for talking from Sept to Dec. When he was going back after Christmas break, we told him if he got 1 more yellow we would take away the Wii that he got for Christmas. (he threatened to call Santa and tell on me). He came home that week with a red and we took away the Wii. When his teacher recently found out she told me that it was mean and they don’t punish. They reason with the kids and encourage good behavior. Reasoning with him resulted in 6 more yellow and a red. Taking the Wii away resulted in greens everyday for the last month and beig respectful to his teacher. Showing a kid that there are consequences for bad behavior is not mean. It’s getting them ready for life.
February 17, 2011 — 1:00 PM
Julie says:
By the way, I gave the Wii back to him after he got a green for 2 wks straight. I’m not cruel! Also, I really missed Wii sword fighting.
February 17, 2011 — 1:27 PM
Josin says:
I love your posts; I really do . “I will kick you into the ocean” should be a badge on the uniform of every tour guide forced to endure small children and their parents.
I don’t think it’s so much that things like time out don’t work, but more that the parents who “try” them don’t take the time or effort to follow through — because while you’re telling the kid he’s in time out, he’s still screaming his head off under the assumption that if he does it long enough, you’ll cave before his voice gives out. He’s usually right.
Tantrums are normal, but ongoing tantrums aren’t – that’s learned behavior. The kid learns to equate “sounds that make you want to jab a pen in your eye” with “I get what I want”.
As for the teacher, no, there shouldn’t have been any disciplinary action (unless she’s blogging from school, in which case, they could tell her to blog on her own time and equipment.
Teachers aren’t special cases. They have a right to complain about their students just like the students have a right to complain about their teachers. They have a right to opinions. They have a right to their rights – free speech and freedom of the press among them. She wasn’t naming names or slandering anyone, so she should be left alone.
February 17, 2011 — 1:32 PM
Stoney says:
Parent to three, one of whom is special needs. SO I’m the parent that all up in my teacher’s bidness (but they like that – apparently it’s rare for parents to give a shit.)
Man, as long as they’re doing right by my kids in the classroom, who am I to say she can’t have a blog that was for her friends/family where she vents? She didn’t name names, so I don’t see the hullabaloo.
Having said that, this n00b should have kept that shit locked down, like we smart folks know how to do when you’re getting personal.
I completely disagree with the idea that childless people have no say in how children are to be raised/what we expect of the newest crop of hu-borgs. By that logic, all parents are automatically experts in their field by virtue ot popping out kids, and Andrea Yates would like to interject and show the court exhibit A – E.
People are LAZY with their kids. It’s a combo of not wanting to upset them/be their friends and that they have NO IDEA that it’s a JOB. It’s not some fun pastime, raising kids, it is a mother scratching JOB. I always tell my friends that it’s 80% shit (literally in the first few years) and 20% bliss. The bliss makes it worth it, imo.
I got off track, but eh, that teacher was right to complain. Parents put the burden of their children’s future on her shoulders and she’s not allowed to let off steam? Disagree. Strongly. (But she should have locked it down because people like to get angry about the dumbest things.)
February 17, 2011 — 1:42 PM
Becky says:
Here’s an interesting video that talks about the necessity of changing education paradigms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U
@levi – thank you for your comment on opinions of non-parents. Everyone should be ‘allowed’ to have an opinion – and nobody should feel forced to agree with anyone elses’.
February 17, 2011 — 1:48 PM
Tara Tyler says:
I totally agree with your well-worded and thought out article. Wish I could give all of them a kick in the pants – the ne-er do well teens and their laissez faire parents, and throw in a few politicians while you’re at it.
Unfortunately, if the teacher has to publicly post how she feels to the world, she is probably too affected to be teaching – you do have to have a thick skin and not take their whining to heart, which she seemed to do.
From a teacher and parent, been there done that! Here’s a couple of posts I put up, if you’re interested =)…http://taratylertalks.blogspot.com/2010/10/grow-up.html
and http://taratylertalks.blogspot.com/2010/12/too-big-for-our-britches.html
February 17, 2011 — 2:55 PM
Elaine says:
Tricky!
My ex head scours Facebook and lashes down punishments on staff. He has an opinion about teachers having a life beyond school: gossiping is covered under the professional heading in teachers’ contracts.
February 17, 2011 — 3:23 PM
Shullamuth Smith says:
Here’s the thing: I’m a teacher and teaching is hard, wicked hard, more unbelievably difficult than you can imagine if you’ve only ever been on the student side of the desk.It does not get any easier when we make the news for stupid things.
No matter what kind of parenting the teacher in question’s students receive, I can assure you that complaining and using pejorative descriptors about students in a PUBLIC forum had a direct impact on her classroom and her students ability to learn from her.
We’re not robots, but we can’t afford public self-indulgence– especially in an era where states are systematically unfunding public education.
February 17, 2011 — 3:43 PM