I’ll say up front I am genuinely happy that DC is going to put forward their girl superheroes for kids. If the writing is great, this’ll be good stuff. Kudos. Huzzah. Hurrah. A PARADE OF PONIES AND GLEE. *flings ponies into air with catapult* *explodes ponies with cannons* *glitter everywhere* *also sequins* *also ice cream sprinkles because why the fuck not*
I’m happy anytime any publisher, creator or company thinks: “Hey, weird, maybe we should be talking to everybody, not just this one group who has dominated the conversation for a good long time.” That’s a good thing. The world is full of folks who have been grossly undernourished by pop culture because of exclusion. And this is true up and down the chain — from those who run the companies to those who create the content to those characters within the content. This is a top-to-bottom, nose-to-toes problem.
And that problem trickles down to the readers, too.
I’ve talked about this before — “Boy Toys, Girl Toys, And Other Cuckoopants Gender Assumptions” — and once again, the specter of this problem rears its exclusionary little head.
I want you to take a look at the DC Comics press release.
More to the point, I want you to gaze at some of the language therein:
“…an exciting new universe of Super Heroic storytelling that helps build character and confidence, and empowers girls to discover their true potential.”
“Developed for girls aged 6-12, DC Super Hero Girls centers on the female Super Heroes and Super-Villains of the DC Comics universe during their formative years…”
“I am so pleased that we are able to offer relatable and strong role models in a unique way, just for girls.”
The underlined emphasis is mine.
I’m of a conflicted mind, here.
See, I want this comic to be about the girls. Not about boys. I want it to empower girls and maintain whatever aesthetic it must to appeal to an audience of girls. I hope it’s written by amazing women authors and put on the page by incredible women artists. Like I said, this is a nose-to-toes problem. It needs to be on the page but also beyond the page, too.
But here’s my conflict:
I want my son to read this.
And the response would be: “Well, he can, duh.”
To that, I agree! He can. And will, one day, I hope.
My problem is the signal that gets sent by identifying again and again that this is “just for girls.” That’s marketing speak, I know, but it’s also something that reaches the audience. It reaches the parents who buy this stuff and that means it reaches the kids who will read these books. This attitude trickles down and it bolsters poisonous gender typing. It says, “GIRLS LIKE GIRLY THINGS, BOYS LIKE BOYLY THINGS, AND NEVER THE TWO SHALL MEET.”
The problem isn’t that things are pink.
The problem is that pink is “just for girls.”
Girls need to be reading comics about girls and by women. Honestly, they’ve had to endure comics that have been about boys and by men for a very long time, and that needs to change.
But my son — now almost four, holy crap — and other boys have had to endure the same thing. That sounds strange, like it’s some kind of punishment — but boys also need to read about girls. Girls are always expected to understand boys (“Boys will be boys”) but boys are never expected to understand girls (“THEY ARE LIKE ALIEN ARTIFACTS AND IF YOU TRY TO UNDERSTAND THEM YOU WILL FRY YOUR BRAIN TO A CRISP CINDER now go play sports or punch somebody”). And this becomes the way men and women are to one another, too. Cosmo teaches women all the sexy sex tricks (“Try oral sex at a small town carnival with a mouth full of hot, deep-fried Snickers bar!”) and teaches men to, y’know, just be dudes, dude. Just bro it up. Be a bro. The ladies will come to you and then you might get to do that thing at the carnival I was telling you about.
Society will get better when boys have to learn about girls the same way girls learn about boys.
Boys need to think about girls in ways that go beyond objectification or alienation.
Boys need to know who girls are and what they will go through.
All the toxicity between the gender divide? It starts here. It starts when they’re kids. It begins when you say, “LOOK, THERE’S THE GIRL STUFF FOR THE GIRLS OVER THERE, AND THE BOY STUFF FOR THE BOYS OVER HERE.” And then you hand them their pink hairbrushes and blue guns and you tell your sons, “You can’t play with the pink hairbrush because GIRL GERMS yucky ew you’re not weird are you, those germs might make you a girl,” and then when the boy wants to play with the hairbrush anyway, he does and gets his ass kicked on the bus and gets called names like sissy or pussy or some homophobic epithet because parents told their kids that girl stuff is for girls only, which basically makes the boy a girl. And the parents got that lesson from the companies that made the hairbrush because nowhere on the packaging would it ever show a boy brushing hair or a girl brushing a boy’s hair. And on the packaging of that blue gun is boys, boys, boys, grr, men, war, no way would girls touch this stuff. Duh! Girls aren’t boys! No guns for you.
My son plays the LEGO superhero games of both DC and Marvel (the Marvel one is better, let’s be honest) — and he plays the women superheroes as often as he does the men ones. He loves Wasp and Pepper Potts (particularly when she’s in the Iron Rescue suit). He got so excited to unlock Batgirl. He doesn’t even know who the fuck Batgirl is, he just thinks she’s rad.
One of my favoritest shows of all time is Gilmore Girls. And I still get people who give me this look (nearly always from dudes) as if to say, “Do you have a penis? Are you sure? Do you need to turn it in — like, are you done with it?” And I’m all, oh, what, it’s cool to like quick-talking Buffy because she stabs things with wooden stakes but not like this other show which oh yeah is basically Buffy just without the vampire fights? “Well, Gilmore Girls is a girl show. It’s right there in the name.” Whatever. Who gives a shit. It’s also an incredibly funny, sarcastic, sweet, sad, quirky show. (Run by a woman showrunner — at least up until it started to suck a little bit.)
Now, this runs the risk of sounding like the plaintive wails of a MAN SPURNED, wherein I weep into the open air, “WHAT ABOUT ME, WHAT ABOUT US POOR MENS,” and that’s not my point, I swear. I don’t want DC or the toy companies to cater to my boy. I just don’t want him excluded from learning about and dealing with girls. I want society to expect him to actually learn about girls and be allowed to like them — not as romantic targets later in life, but as like, awesome ass-kicking complicated equals. As real people who are among him rather than separate from him.
DC Comics making comics about girls isn’t the problem.
DC Comics telling us those comics are “just for girls” is.
Listen, if these comics are half-good, I’m giving them to him regardless. And this one particular instance isn’t going to ruin anything or change much at all — I think it’s a great initiative. I’m excited. But I do think it’s indicative of that larger patten. That larger division in gender. You don’t have to submit to a chromosomal test to read certain books or play with certain toys. Gender is a spectrum, not two poles at opposite ends of the globe. And the characteristics we associate with gender are constantly floating, shifting, changing. We need to embrace that, not the US VERSUS THEM attitude. Not the THESE PRODUCTS ARE FOR YOU, THESE PRODUCTS ARE FOR THEM declaration. Men can read books by women, about women. A boy can play with an EZ Bake oven because what the fuck? Why not? Why can’t a boy learn how to cook? Why can’t a girl learn how to use a screwdriver? Men can’t try to learn what women actually have to go through? C’mon.
I’ll be teaching my son all this stuff. I hope others will teach their kids the same, too. And I hope companies and publishers wisen up, as well — we need to stop that idea of gender roles trickling down from company to creator to parent to kids. Because this is where it all starts. This is when we have to catch it. It’s on us to fix it.
terribleminds says:
(I should also add that whatever the case, making products about girls and for girls — regardless of the marketing swirl around it! — is much better than EXCLUDING girls, as may be the case with the Age of Ultron toys, where Black Widow and Scarlet Witch are all-too-scarce.)
April 23, 2015 — 9:27 AM
Helena Hann-Basquiat says:
Hall-fucking-lujah — Chuck, you get it. I’ve been saying this for years — why the divide? Boys and Men need the f-word (not the one that rhymes with fuck) almost as much as women, so they can learn how women work, who women are, and how to socialize with them.
I really appreciated your take on this.
April 23, 2015 — 9:28 AM
Louis Shalako says:
Misogyny begins at home. The cure for it also begins at home. My perspective is a special one. My mother went to university at about 30 years old, and went on to teach courses that got women into non-traditional jobs such as process engineering, machining, carpentry. The pay from such jobs and the empowerment have helped to change our world.
I guess you could say I’m kind of proud of my mother.
April 23, 2015 — 9:37 AM
Pat says:
Love your take on the subject. Especially love YOUR love for Mom.
April 23, 2015 — 9:45 AM
Craig Forsyth says:
Not sure I entirely agree. We’ve been very careful not to set gender-defined boundaries for our son, and as a result he has developed a rather diverse set of interests. That said, we have begun to notice that he’s absorbing misogynist opinions from elsewhere (most likely his time at nursery…kindergarten?), so we’re having to tackle issues which have not been seeded at home. We’re often told that he can’t watch something as it’s for girls, that girls can’t play with some of his toys as they’re for boys, and most disturbingly that his female friends couldn’t come to his approaching birthday party as boys go to boy parties and girls go to girl parties. My guess? These opinions are originating in other homes, so this issue is pretty insidious.
April 23, 2015 — 12:04 PM
Maggie Carroll says:
It’s depressing how often I have to have this conversation with my sons. My philosophy is “if it’s not operated with genitals, any of my kids can play with it”. My nearby McDonald’s has heard my spiel about gender-neutral toys enough so they don’t even bother asking me how many of my twice-monthly Happy Meals are for boys or girls, they just haul out the toys so I can pick which ones my kids will like.
But that’s just me. My influence over my boys, now 9 and 8, is lessening with the more time they spend at school, at the community center, with their friends. I’m not the only voice they’re hearing. At least three times in the last eight months, I’ve had to stop and correct them in telling their 5-year-old sister that she can’t do/have/be something because she’s a girl. My girl is just as good as my boys. She can be whoever the hell she wants. So can my boys.
But other parents reinforce the gender division, not necessarily because their kids genuinely like traditionally gender-defined things (amongst her other interests, my daughter loves ponies and Barbies and pink and purple and fairies and flowers because *she chose to*, not because it was the only option we gave her), but because they think it’s what their kids *should* like based on gender. Those kids pass the notion of gender-appropriateness onto MY kids, necessitating another conversation with my kids.
It’s a vicious cycle, but the only thing to do is keep at it, because giving up on teaching my kids gender equality is not an option.
April 23, 2015 — 9:41 AM
Kate Sparkes says:
Love the McDonald’s thing. When they ask, “boy toy or girl toy,” I say “a pony and a transformer, please.”
I know they ask that way because it’s easier (and probably faster when parents don’t have to think beyond pink and blue to make the decision), but hey, my boys want ponies, and that’s cool.
April 23, 2015 — 9:54 AM
Amy Juicebox says:
“if it’s not operated with genitals, any of my kids can play with it
best. sentence. ever. *high fives*
April 23, 2015 — 12:16 PM
devsmess says:
I second that high-five.
April 23, 2015 — 3:57 PM
Sarah Snarkerson says:
There’s a fantastic flow chart about this (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/02/how-to-tell-if-a-toy-is-for-boys-or-girls_n_4372629.html) but the next step is that if it is operated with genitals, it’s not a toy for children.
April 23, 2015 — 2:36 PM
smithster says:
It’s tiring, isn’t it, the way we keep having to explain why this is so stupid and arbitrary (because it is arbitrary, like so many cultural artifacts). The lack of female Avengers stuff was getting me and a couple of other wimmens in a snit the other night because one of us did a search of Kohl’s for Marvel themed products. No surprise that there are three items for women (girls actually, not like grown women) and a bunch of Halloween costumes while the men’s section has posters, watches, sleepwear, oh, and three or four times as many Halloween costumes (I adore the wolverine headpiece lol). The only difference in the search was the word ‘mens’ or ‘womens’, and I’m sorry how hard is it to make some of that stuff available when using the search function?
There was a suggestion, completely anecdotal, that the only reason Disney acquired Marvel was to get a ‘boys’ market since they already pretty much had a moratorium on the girls’.
April 23, 2015 — 9:41 AM
Pat says:
Once, again, Sensei – Your awesomeness shines through for ALL parents and humanity to see. The world would be a much poorer place without your voice. Much love and respect!
April 23, 2015 — 9:44 AM
precariouswriter says:
I completely agree. When I was in junior high and high school, boys wouldn’t read anything with a female protagonist like The Hunger Games or other great works of fiction. I read lots of books with protagonists of both genders by authors of both genders and there never seemed to be that big a difference to me, but a lot of my classmates not only missed out on great reading, but they assumed women were vastly different from men and not in a positive way.
April 23, 2015 — 9:44 AM
jen says:
Interestingly, I still have my UK first edition paperback of The Hunger Games, with a delightfully nifty three part fold out front cover so that you could have either Peta or Katniss appear through a cut out… I do believe I picked it up because it was (quite logically) still folded to Katniss in the bookshop. Can’t think why you would need have a cover showing a character who isn’t narrating the bloody thing in first person (or just have both characters, shock horror), but there you go.
April 24, 2015 — 5:48 AM
Katherine Hetzel says:
Cheering at this end, Chuck – well said, indeed.
April 23, 2015 — 9:46 AM
mannixk says:
Awesome, Chuck. My daughters have heard us say “There’s no such thing as girl toys or boy toys — toys are for everyone.” countless times. I’ve even heard them beak it to other adults (grandparents, aunts) who need some re-educating. Proud moments there, let me tell you. It seems futile sometimes when the mega-marketing machines are so good at undermining this mantra. Still, it’s not completely hopeless when there are fathers like you out there, teaching their sons to cut through the crap and just be a kind, inclusive, fun-loving, human kid.
April 23, 2015 — 9:47 AM
Amy Juicebox says:
keep going!!!
April 23, 2015 — 12:18 PM
Maggie Maxwell says:
*one woman standing ovation in her office until someone tells her to stop that weird clapping, sit down, and get back to work*
April 23, 2015 — 9:47 AM
Kate Sparkes says:
I agree. It IS wonderful that things are opening up for girls, that girls are being actively encouraged to enjoy gaming and comics and STEM and Sci-Fi and everything else that should be open to everyone. This is extremely positive. Pink should be cool for everyone, and being “like a girl” shouldn’t be an insult.
But the “JUST FOR GIRLS” marketing ticks me off, too. Like there’s this engineering toy that’s pink and has a female character involved, and she’s smart and cool, and it’s amazing and I would LOVE for my boys to play with that… but all of the marketing is THIS IS JUST FOR GIRLS, BECAUSE GIRLS HAVE SPECIAL NEEDS IN THIS AREA. I’d still buy it for my boys if I saw better product reviews, but it bothers me that so many parents probably do look at it and go, “Eh, that’s for girls,” and so the separation continues. Could we maybe have a pink and purple thing with a female character that’s marketed to everyone? Because boys can have female heroes, and they should.
I think Nerf Rebelle guns are wicked, and like that girls are openly invited to shoot their friends with foam darts, but I wish they were in the nerf aisle at Walmart and not with the PINK AND PURPLE toys and marketed as adorably badass accessories for tweens.
I like that there’s pink Lego. I hate that it’s kept in a separate aisle from the “standard boy lego” and has dolls that aren’t compatible with other sets.
It seems like we’re moving backward, making toys less gender-neutral than they were when I was a kid, or before that. It’s like you said, boys should be encouraged to understand girls just as girls are to “get” boys.
Girls do need the extra encouragement, and need to be told “this is for you, and you are welcome here” in many areas right now. I’m glad it’s happening. But I hope the pendulum swings back to some place in the middle where we’re all invited to enjoy whatever the hell interests us, and maybe toys are grouped in stores and commercials by what they are rather than by who’s supposed to play with them.
Keep dreaming, I know… if marketing to one or the other sells more, it will never end.
April 23, 2015 — 9:52 AM
terribleminds says:
LEGO — yeah, man, it’s tricky. That LEGO FRIENDS set — which our son likes — is often not just girl-themed but indicative of some assumptions *about* girls. So, a lot of the sets are SHOPPING MALL, JUICE BAR, CAFE, HER HOUSE, HER OTHER HOUSE, A YACHT, HIGH SCHOOL. That’s not all individually bad, mind you, and I see some new and better sets have hit (news van, invention lab, stuff like that).
But it’s very explicitly geared not just TO girls, but AWAY from boys. And that’s the problem. Girl-themed is great. But I think it’s also vital to send signals that girl-themed can still be fun for boys.
— c.
April 23, 2015 — 9:58 AM
Karin Kallmaker says:
Let’s hope a correction is coming for Legos. They used to be about this: http://i.imgur.com/xwAsW56.jpg or this one with both a girl and boy: http://blog.pigtailpals.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Lego-boy.girl_-429×550.jpg
April 23, 2015 — 1:13 PM
whereibelongsf says:
Agreed. I went to target to buy a farm set for my then 18-month old daughter, and almost threw up. It was so heavily and unnecessarily gendered. Having hung out with little boys and little girls, I can accept that they have predilections for certain types of play, and boys are often more interested in trucks etc and girls are often more interested in dolls, but it’s a tendency, not a hard fast rule. The marketing and the way toys are made and displayed only reinforces the idea that boys and girls are totally different and don’t like the same things, and that there are “girl” things and “boy” things. And the boy things are all about fighting and the girl things are all about homemaking and dressing like a skanky vampire. Ugh.
April 23, 2015 — 10:08 AM
Caped Crusader (@Caped_Crusader) says:
What Kate touches on here is a larger problem than anything toy companies are doing, the segregation of toys in retail stores. Big Box retail (mostly Walmart, but Target and Toys R Us are still a big chunk of it) controls every aspect of the toy industry these days. That wasn’t the case when Mattel introduced She-Ra in the ’80s, but the market being swallowed by just a few massive retailers changed the game. And the retailers who cling to this divide and demand gender-restrictive marketing from the toy manufacturers aren’t going to change until the parents who say things like, “Eh, that’s for girls,” knock it off, stop imposing their absurd ideas of gender on their children, and tell those stores they want to see one inclusive toy department.
So as long as this silly line is drawn in the stores, something like what DC and Mattel are doing here will be very necessary. In fact, it’s long overdue. The “girls’ toy” aisles need to have superhero figures, building sets, and Nerf toys precisely because parents won’t buy anything that doesn’t conform to their limited views of what toys are appropriate for little girls. There’s no reason in the world girls shouldn’t like pink, enjoy dolls, and play with toys typically associated with femininity, but they should also feel comfortable playing with different kinds of toys if that’s what they prefer. Unfortunately, that still means marketing those products away from the “boys’ toys” aisles. And little boys, of course, should be allowed – and encouraged, damn it – to play with fashion dolls and Easy Bake Ovens if that’s what they want, but that’s for another discussion.
I would be surprised if any of this ends up being branded as “just for girls” when it’s released, surprised and disappointed. Hopefully that won’t happen. Like I said, they need to be in the “girl” aisles just because that’s the reality of the market today, but they should absolutely FEEL like they’re FOR EVERYONE when a parent gives them to a child.
April 23, 2015 — 3:13 PM
Kara Stewart says:
Absolutely. My other thought after seeing the drawings of the girl superheroes is – why can’t they have a little more realistic body shape? Less boob, more waist. More realistic instead of again with the Barbie shapes.
April 23, 2015 — 9:56 AM
susielindau says:
I think he’ll love it. My son played Barbies with my daughter by pulling off a doll’s loose head and throwing it like a bomb and playing war with them, but he still played. Will your super girls have a gender-neutral sidekick like an animal or robot, or a friend that’s a boy?
April 23, 2015 — 10:05 AM
Ian Hiatt (@ihiatt) says:
While I applaud DC for taking this step, to me, their press release read like a shoe company saying: “Hey, we need a shoe for people’s left foot and a shoe for their right. Let’s make this half of the store Left Shoes and this half Right Shoes! That will meet their needs!”
April 23, 2015 — 10:05 AM
cynthia says:
My daughter would probably avoid this as it is labeled “just for girls.”
April 23, 2015 — 10:07 AM
James McCormick says:
I agree.
But I think you’re conflating two separate things. This is a marketing campaign directed at girls. DC wants to bring a younger female audience into the comicbook fold (a market that has typically been male). They’ve been pretty successful at finding a younger female audience with Cameron Stewart and Co’s run on Batgirl.
They haven’t done so by “girling her up” or dressing her in pink. They simply made her more reflective of modern younger females.
I also think maybe you’re jumping the gun a tad on the “girly-ness” of this campaign. (Yes, it might go overboard, but from what I’ve seen so far, DC’s actually been pretty good as they’ve branched out).
The positive things to note are — 1) They’re competing with Katniss Everdeen. Pretty solid model of “non-pinkness.”
2) They own the IP to Harley Quinn, Catwoman, and Wonder Woman. These aren’t stereotypically “girly” figures and they are probably three of the most iconic identifiable female comicbook characters. They also are their own characters, they aren’t a derivative character in the copyright sense. (Sorry, SuperGirl).
There’s a lot going for DC’s female characters.
3) The current Batgirl team has laid some awesome groundwork that didn’t turn Batgirl into glitter and fairydust.
Again, I do agree, “Just for girls” is bad marketing language. They probably think it’s girl empowering rather than reinforcing the notion of exclusion. But it’s also ad-copy and likely to change. (I mean, I guarantee if you pointed out to any marketing company that 3-words is cutting their demographic in half, they’d rethink their strat pretty quickly).
When we start seeing Wonder Woman EZ Bake ovens, I’ll be right there with you, yelling how stupid that is.
April 23, 2015 — 10:07 AM
terribleminds says:
I agree that the result — the comic! — is not likely to suffer this problem. But the press release is pretty indicative of the issue, I think. The HUNGER GAMES was never sold (while I worked at the library, at least, so I did see some of that sales material) as “just for girls.”
April 23, 2015 — 10:20 AM
Elisabeth Staab says:
As a woman who has dealt with her share of , I agree that empowering girls is extremely important. As a mother of a boy who likes everything from monster trucks and Pokemon to ballet and Tinkerbell, however, I find myself struggling with the flip side. It’s a daily task to shore up his self-esteem, to assure him that he’s okay and so are the things he likes. And also to try and remind the world around him. I agree that it would be very nice if things were not so blatantly labeled as “for girls” and “for boys.” Aside from having babies and peeing standing up, I’m not sure of anything much one gender can have or do that the other can’t, really.
April 23, 2015 — 10:10 AM
faithanncolburn says:
If I needed something to be grateful for today, I found it in this post. Thank you, thank you. We really aren’t an alien race. As I see it, pretending that we are absolves the males of the species of any responsibility for understanding us as human beings. So thanks again for doing your best to explode that myth.
April 23, 2015 — 10:13 AM
larryhogue says:
The university convention center here in East Lansing, MI, just hosted a “Superheroes and Princesses Brunch” for kids. Wish I could figure out how to post a pic of the giant billboard for it.
April 23, 2015 — 10:19 AM
betsydornbusch says:
Messaging at home to combat persistent sexism in society and media is really, really important, and actually effective. We’re lucky because we have both a boy and a girl. After years of my talking about it my 16 year old son has actually brought instances of misogyny to my attention, and nothing brings sexism home like seeing your daughter victimized by it and having to convince her that it’s not acceptable.
April 23, 2015 — 10:21 AM
Sarah_Madison says:
You hit the nail squarely on the head as to why I am both pleased and annoyed with this announcement. It is certainly better than Marvel’s position, which is that “Disney has the girls market tied up; we don’t need to worry about ‘girl’s toys” but it is irritating just the same.
However, I am reminded of a Twitter argument I got into with someone who blasted Star Trek: TOS for its blatant sexism. The (young) Twitter combatant refused to accept that for its day, Star Trek was groundbreaking in so very many ways. First interracial kiss (albiet, The Aliens Made Them Do It). Women on the bridge in crucial roles. A black woman in a role besides a nanny or a maid. An international and interspecies bridge crew–and so on. Yes, the female crew members wore mini-skirts and Kirk was a hound dog. But from those initial groundbreaking steps came so much more.
So as much as I agree with you, I’m inclined to cut DC a little slack for making the effort. Problem is, its not the 1960s anymore. We shouldn’t have to applaud anyone for being a little less sexist and gender stereotypical than before. It’s a little like praising macaroni and glitter glued to a piece of paper as art by a professional artist holding a show in NYC.
April 23, 2015 — 10:41 AM
miceala says:
So I did the terrible thing where I started to read the comments section on the DC press release, but I stopped at the second one because it’s just “Damn they look like Disney Princesses” and now I’m laughing so hard because yes, kind, curt stranger, who apparently eschews using any punctuation, yes they do. Thank you for pointing that out. In that particular way. I appreciate you as a human.
Also, as always, thank you for coalescing lots of reasonable points on the issue into one post. Your thoughts on this are awesome, as always. As a kid, I had this cousin that I grew up with until he moved away and then only got to see him from time to time. Until about the age of 16, I was actually afraid of boys. I went to an all-girl school, and fuck if I understood anything about boys other than “they ripped up my flower chain back in preschool” and “they run around screaming for I don’t know what reason a lot.” As someone who was taught to be a quiet, demur little girl-child, this made boys terrifying to me. But my cousin – him I loved. He tried to teach me how to play the sonic video games he liked, and then he let me put glitter-filled hair gel all over his hair and tie it up with scrunchies afterwards. His activities as a boy didn’t always feel accessible to me, but for a really long time, he tried, at least a little bit, to make them, and to figure out how to play with me when he couldn’t. Sure, it’s bad that I’d already internalized enough of an gender inferiority complex to have thought about it as him “stooping down to my level,” but hey, that wasn’t his fault.
So. Directly teaching kids what all their other fellow kids are like? Not IMMEDIATELY putting up a barrier to letting a girl and her cousin enjoy the same thing? Yeah. Seems like a good idea.
April 23, 2015 — 10:54 AM
Jeff Xilon says:
I’m in complete agreement here Chuck. As a dad of a young boy I often feel like I’m in a Sisyphean battle against the world around us to not have him infected by all the toxic boys-vs-girls crap. Things like the only explicitly girl lego in all of his Castle lego being a princess who is supposed to be locked up in the bad guy jail awaiting rescue. Or the other day I asked him if he liked the song I had playing and he said he did but then he heard the word love in it and said he didn’t anymore. I asked him why and he told me “Only girls care about love.” I asked him why he thought that and he said his cousin (a boy a bit more than a year older) had told him that. Do you know how hard it is to convince a seven year old that his cousin’s ideas are wrong when that kid desperately wants to maintain his cousin’s approval? Of course luckily with a cousin I can talk to both, but when that kind of thing starts coming from school friends? Yikes.
Of course no one said parenting was supposed to be easy, so I’ll keep pushing that rock up the hill. I think I’ll buy this comic for him along the way.
April 23, 2015 — 10:55 AM
faithanncolburn says:
btw, I tweeted a link to your post. Hope that’s okay.
April 23, 2015 — 11:05 AM
SC Rose says:
Amen!! *stands up* *applauds* *wipes tears* Seriously… This did make me tear up. Because you are just so freaking right. Sometimes I feel like people, in trying to empower women, only end up widening the divide between us and men. I have two little boys. My youngest thinks ass-kicking women are just the coolest. His favorite is Catwoman. He’s only four, but he actually wanted to *be* Catwoman for Halloween. He ended up getting teased by other kids when he’d tell them this and I’d have to intervene, “Hey! If he wants to be Catwoman, let him be Catwoman!” And the kids would argue, “But Catwoman’s a girl…” And I’d never given it a ton of thought before, but I suddenly found myself thinking – why the hell can’t he be Catwoman? It’s okay for girls to dress up as their favorite male superheroes – even encouraged! – but if an innocent 4-year-old boy wants to be Catwoman, he ends up tormented? How is that “equal”? My boys LOVE girls. They especially love the ones that look cool and kick-ass. They should be allowed to see them as true equals, forever, like they do now. They should continue to grow up seeing them through these eyes. I sure hope, with the way society is currently teaching kids, that I can somehow counter it as a parent at home and keep them seeing gender the way they do now.
Gosh, I just love this post!! *wipes more tears* *sniff* Thank you so much, Chuck!!
April 23, 2015 — 11:16 AM
percykerry923 says:
It’s not just toys and comics which are shadowed in an aura of gender discrimination. There are other things too. Like, for example, my sis is a HUGE fan of Football- she doesn’t miss a single match, she knows all the technicalities of the game, she knows which player plays for which club and how much they earn and when their last bowel movement was etc. etc. Whenever I tell people about my sis, they’re like: WHAT? ARE YOU SURE YOU HAVE A SIS AND NOT A BRO?. It’s like it’s a sacrilege for a girl to be a Football fan because it’s such a ‘manly’ game. Take my case. I like stuff which is supposed to be liked mostly by ‘men and boys’: like car races, bikes, action movies high on violence and gore, slasher films and the likes. I’m supposed to ‘like’ romantic books and movies as a girl but I don’t- I’m more partial to crime novels, horror and espionage thrillers. It’s frustrating to be pigeon-holed just because of gender.
April 23, 2015 — 11:19 AM
Amy Juicebox says:
as an NFL chick myself.. don’t get me started…
April 23, 2015 — 12:23 PM
bethtreadwayauthor says:
I’m a veteran. Yup, a woman who has medals for doing distinctly “guy” stuff. And I’m disturbed by the pictures. Big eyed, small waisted, scrawny victims dressed up as super heroes. Thanks for making my job harder by convincing the outies (genital talk here) that the innies are somehow fragile waifs who can’t train to perform heavy physical. I already got screwed out of combat pay for doing the same job in the same op zone because I was “support”. Bra talk? Nope. Job description for someone who needs support if she’s running that far carrying battle gear.
Why do children of any age need to see this exaggerated Barbie-shape sketch of 19th century notions of femininity and associate it with the awesome physicality that is woman? (Yeah, we can push out babies, then clean up, make up, and still be vicious she-devils on the battlefield. HOO-rah!)
Do I love men? Oh yeah! (enthusiastic locker room noises here causing any man reading this to blush and reach to protect their junk) But that stuff doesn’t need to bleed over into toys. Anymore than I need to see some 12 year old scrawny with too much makeup on and hooker gear on a magazine page and be told that’s the fashion forward womandom I should aspire to if I want to be attractive to men. (Trust me, guys have never had trouble making attraction moves toward me even when I was wearing BDUs and holding a loaded weapon.)
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Painting stuff the loser color (pink) and dressing it up like an Amsterdam hooker is NOT empowering anything female at any age. Won’t be buying this crud for any kid under my umbrella of affection whatever the gender.
April 23, 2015 — 11:21 AM
Amy Juicebox says:
this comment rocked. all of my socks.
April 23, 2015 — 12:24 PM
James says:
My brother and I actually had an EZ-bake oven and a doll house. Granted, the doll house was more often used for G.I. Joe or Star Wars toys (or indeed, Beanie Babies), but we made some delicious if questionable culinary discoveries.
I’d absolutely support any son of mine reading this comic.
April 23, 2015 — 11:22 AM
laurieboris says:
This is fabulous, thank you. I’m tearing up and applauding, too. Now if DC and Marvel and the like would make their female characters look more like real females instead of flotation devices…
April 23, 2015 — 11:28 AM
Amber Love (@elizabethamber) says:
Look, I want boys to enjoy whatever they want too, but I more strongly see the void that needs to be filled in comics and gaming which is that girls need safe spaces and franchises where they are not demeaned nor degraded. Marketing might suck, but this is not a bad thing.
April 23, 2015 — 11:36 AM
terribleminds says:
I agree totally — and I’m not suggesting DC make a different product. And this isn’t about boys getting to enjoy things — this is about boys being allowed to and even encouraged to like “girl stuff” as much as the legacy of “boy stuff” which has long dominated the pop culture marketplace. I am suggesting that saying “just for girls” is bad for boys *and* girls and, frankly, anybody else along the gender spectrum.
April 23, 2015 — 11:58 AM
persimmonromance says:
Thank you, Chuck. That “just for girls” is toxic.
Not particularly good for girls, although I suppose your very own universe is better than sidekick status or invisibility, but for boys. It is part and parcel of the entire unnecessary and frustrating gendering of children’s toys that has occurred over the last twenty years. Any trip to a toy store will leave me staring at what should be gender-neutral toys that I’m uncomfortable buying for my nephew because they’re pink (his parents are pretty tolerant of that, but there are limits). My other nephew’s parents are also fairly tolerant
I’m always particularly disturbed by the parade of glittery pink and purple household equipment. I was frustrated by it with my own son, because he was the kind of child who would arrange picnics for his stuffed animals and adored miniatures. So sometimes we’d grit our teeth and buy the pink thing, and sometimes we’d skip it, and we’d keep our eyes out for gender-neutral versions of desired toys, but it was irritating, and sometimes it made my kid feel wrong because he was a boy and he knew he was a boy and he didn’t even particularly like pink. He did, however, grow up into the kind of man who likes to garden and cook and have brunch and go to bead stores and will put on a suit and tie without being bribed. At five, in the aisle of the toy store, there was no room for that version of masculinity.
I nearly cried the day I finally saw a little china tea set printed with teddy bears and American flags, nestled in a little gingham lined wicker hamper, because he was thirteen and he’d completely outgrown them. I almost bought it anyway, because he’d wanted one for years. Just not one that was “only for girls”.
My nephews seem to be less interested in that kind of toy, which makes my life easier, since I think the problem is actually worse than it was when I regularly shopped for my own kid. Still my nephew likes Frozen, and it’s hard to find much that doesn’t involve dressing up Anna and Elsa, which he’s not particularly interested in. And my other nephew would love a whole bunch of craft projects that he rejects because they come in a pink box and only have pictures of girls on them. He like superheroes too, but I’m betting that he gets the message loud and clear.
April 23, 2015 — 11:42 AM
Guy "Couchguy" McLimore says:
This has me going back and forth, too — especially about the toys. I’m happy to see LEGO as a toy licensee for the DC Super Hero Girls, buit I wonder — will they make more standard superheroine minifigs (like the Supergirl, Wonder Woman, Storm, Batgirl, Jean Grey, Black Widow, etc. already out there), or will this line use the “minidolls” LEGO created for the Friends line? I’m betting it will be the latter. If so, will that be an excuse to quit doing fenakle minifuigs in the regular DC and Marvel LEGO lines? That would be a damn shame, because they are doing a great job with the female character minifigs in the regular line. I was really happy with the new Brainiac set, which includes both Superman and Supergirl, for example. Unlike Mattel’s Guardians of the Galaxy toys, the women in the group were included in the LEGO sets just like the guys. I don’t like the idea of “separate but equal” LEGO sets for girls and boys. Girls like to build trucks and spaceships and skyscrapers mjust as much as boys — until they get indoctrinated into the “girls play with girls toys” concept.
So “Yes, yes, YES!” to the DC Super Hero Girls. But don’t make the toys a “girl’s ghetto” where they are consigned away from the all regular superhero toy ines. Having a line aimed at girls doesn’t mean you are off the hook to include the female characters along with the males in other lines!
April 23, 2015 — 12:10 PM
skydomepins says:
This was my feeling too. You’d think we’d have learned by now that separate is never equal. No matter how good the “girl’s version” (or the “non-white version” or the “non-straight version” or any other excuse to separate an entire section of humans from another) might be, it can’t erase the feeling of exclusion. It’s like when we were little and someone had a club, or a treehouse and we weren’t allowed because “no girls” or “no boys” or “no whatevers” and our moms, trying to be helpful would say things like, “It’s their loss. You can make your own club and invite who YOU like. And it’ll be better.” When what we were really saying was not, “I want to go into the treehouse, because the treehouse is cool!” but “I like those people and want to spend time with them. And it hurts that they don’t want me back.”
And your mom never tells you that you’ll be stuck in separate treehouses for your entire life. That the world doesn’t want you to share a treehouse. That it does everything possible to keep you in separate treehouses, including encouraging you to think and say bad things about the people in another treehouse. It follows us forever. In highschool it’s separate sports teams (even when there really isn’t a good reason to play separately). “They’re equal,” everyone says. But everyone knows the softball is bigger and the audience is always smaller, that scholarships are fewer and smaller for “girl” sports.
Later it means campaign ads that pretend men don’t care about raising a family or social issues like poverty or human rights and that women don’t care about the economy or war or international policy. It means paying different amounts for the same product because one product is “just for women” and another is “just for men”, and being paid different amounts for doing the same job. And even worse, it reduces any friendship between genders (of all stripes and identities) to a transaction of kindness now in exchange for intimacy later, or at least, that’s what the world wants us to think.
The thing is, it’s great that the treehouse is decorated with me in mind. It’s wonderful that the building set includes new ideas and that the comics are showing me that women can be super powerful, super heroic, super good. But putting a sign on the door of the treehouse (or the building set, or the comic) that says “Closed to boys” or even “You can come in, boys, but trust us, you won’t like it” isn’t what I wanted. I don’t want an empty treehouse (or even a half-filled one). I want not only to believe that I can do or be anything, but that EVERYONE can do that too. I want to play with everyone, but more than that, I want people to WANT to play with me too (I mean, unless I’m the mean kid who bites everyone, I can understand people not wanting to play then). I want to be friends without constantly wondering if I’m being befriended because a. I’m pitiable and they really ought to throw the little girl a bone or b. only in order to get something from me.
April 23, 2015 — 3:19 PM
Amy Juicebox says:
words cannot express how much i love love love this post.
i love everything about it.
from toes to noes.
April 23, 2015 — 12:14 PM
Kimber Leigh Wheaton says:
Amen. I thought gender bias was on a downswing when my son was born 14 years ago. My husband and I never worried about what he watched or played with. Then preschool rolled around, and he came home with the announcement that he couldn’t play with a certain toy because, ‘that’s for girls’. And he couldn’t watch some shows on TV because again (well you know where this is going). We told him it was nonsense, and he went on with his life, enjoying both race cars and his favorite TV show at the time, ‘Powerpuff Girls’.
I grew up gender blind, playing with stuffed animals alongside my ‘Star Wars’ figures and stretchy ‘Incredible Hulk’ (he was awesome– Hulk smash stuffed animals!). I played video games when the boys told me I couldn’t and also hockey. I was also a cheerleader in high school and showed up at the arcade after school in my uniform. Don’t tell me I can’t do something– I’ll just want it that much more. My parents never told me that some toys were for boys and some for girls. I wanted a chemistry set for Christmas, I got a chemistry set. I love them for creating a healthy environment in a time when things weren’t so healthy in that aspect.
Gender bias starts in the home with those stupid baby onesies covered in footballs for boys and dollies for girls. My son’s clothes were pretty gender neutral. I love animals so most of his clothes were decorated with those adorable little baby animals. This isn’t a problem that will die easily. We’ve been arguing and fighting about it for years. But I have hope. We can change– one child at a time.
April 23, 2015 — 12:26 PM
Karin Kallmaker says:
I really hope DC revises their marketing campaign. This is superhero land and every possible kid should feel okay about reading it. Someone hasn’t learned to substitute in words for race and religion and see how that sounds to the ear. Would they really launch a marketing campaign that said “just for Christians” or “just for Asians”? As soon as you read it that way, you hear the exclusionary tone. There are better ways to word it that still celebrate the core market for a project without turning off the rest of the world.
Echoing comments above – no matter how much I tried to make sure both kids felt that there was no boy or girl appropriate books and toys, they were inundated from elsewhere. Especially my daughter, in just this bassackward way – by saying “just” for girls, boys were excluded from seeing that entertainment featuring girls is NORMAL.
Tangent: Kudos to the artists for creating girl characters who aren’t TOO sexualized, Barbie-shaped or all wafer-thin.
April 23, 2015 — 12:53 PM
crossedstars says:
I responded to your post here: http://scmusing.blogspot.com/2015/04/been-hot-minute-yes.html
There are reasons why people do what they do, and your post touches on it — suffice it to say I agree with you.
April 23, 2015 — 12:53 PM
jmh says:
Brilliant post. Just as boys are made fun of for liking supposed “girly” toys, girls are told that they’re not normal if they want to play at anything other than being a homemaker or fashion designer/hairdresser. Not that there’s anything wrong with those professions–but not all girls are interested in them.
When I was a kid, I hated dolls. HATED them. I thought playing house was boring, although I loved the little fridge and stove and especially the fake food. My favourite toy was my Spiderman action figure and his Spidey mobile. I was obsessed with Spiderman. I also loved wrestling and playing “stink bomb” with the neighbourhood boys, and for that I was called a tomboy.
I used to think I was an aberration, but the more women I meet, the more common I realize “tomboys” are. Maybe one day, with more insightful parenting and a backlash against this stupid marketing, the word tomboy will be extinct and we’ll realize that some girls like rough-and-tumble play and think dolls are stupid. That needn’t put them in a different category. Sadly, even girls are taught that female superheroes are inferior.
April 23, 2015 — 1:05 PM
Karin Kallmaker says:
P.S. Thank you Chuck for recognizing that the natural outgrowth of the way DC is heading is that boys who read them will get taunted for liking girl germs and that makes them girls which is the Worst Possible Thing. We can forever fix sexism, racism and all forms of Fear of those Not Like Me by making what kids see in the world as diverse as possible and letting them pick for themselves.
April 23, 2015 — 1:09 PM
Sharon Morse (@SharonMorse) says:
“LOOK, THERE’S THE GIRL STUFF FOR THE GIRLS OVER THERE, AND THE BOY STUFF FOR THE BOYS OVER HERE.”
Honestly, it’s more like, “Look, this is the girl stuff for the girls, starring girls.” And then it’s like “this is the stuff starring boys, and it’s for everyone.”
And that’s the problem. Girls get the male POV thrust upon them constantly, and from an early age, and yet boys are told that a female POV makes something ‘girly.’ And then we’re shocked that boys can’t imagine females complexly, as actual humans with rich interior lives?
But anyhoo, awesome post.
April 23, 2015 — 1:13 PM
terribleminds says:
True enough! Though I think there’s some shaming going on about girls who wanna play with boy toys, too.
April 23, 2015 — 1:43 PM
Maya Langston says:
I agree with others who’ve said that gender bias begins at home. My husband and I come from a culture that’s very macho and live in a part of the country which, as much as I love it, still relies heavily on gender roles. We have people around us who truly love our sons, but they focus a lot on the fact that they’re boys. So it’s something we’re very conscious of. It’s important for us that they are exposed to media where girls are at the forefront. That’s the only way they’ll learn to see women as equals. We’re don’t always get it right, but we’re still learning to unlearn a lot of gender stereotyping we grew up with. However, it makes us proud that our boys get as excited when they see Anna and Elsa and Doc McStuffins as they do the Ninja Turtles and Lightening McQueen. They’re 4 and almost 3. It’s not perfect (Frozen has its issues, for example), but at this age, all they know is that they’ve seen these characters on TV and they love them.
April 23, 2015 — 1:16 PM
Melissa Clare says:
This didn’t come across at all as though you were wailing about the poor mens. I think it really does get to the heart of the issue, that we create these divides so young and boys aren’t ever expected to understand girls (to the detriment of both the boys and the girls).
Also, the snickers bar thing – makes me shudder AND makes me think you do, in fact, read Cosmo. You jest, but I could see that in there.
April 23, 2015 — 1:49 PM
anonymous says:
DC Comics telling us those comics are “just for girls” is.
Well, like you said earlier: It’s PR marketing speak. I don’t necessarily disagree that the “FOR GIRLS, FOR GIRLS, FOR GIRLS” Bender dance isn’t a problem, but: Those that are smarter than a common housefly will cut through that bullshit and buy the toy is the boy desires it. If your boy wants the hairbrush and you aren’t “LOL GENDER-ROLES LOL NO SON LOL” about it: You’ll buy the damn hairbrush.
“But the person at the register will probably shame me, OH GOD I CAN’T DEAL WIT–”
Shhh… it’s okay. Just like buying Condoms or Tampons or other “embarassing” things you learn to not give a shit about it (or put bananas and other weird things up there with the tampons. BAH-DUM-PSH?)
I guess what I’m getting at is: I can see where you’re coming from. But I also don’t see the problem with DC saying it’s “for girls” because it is targeted for girls. The PR piece may seem exclusionary but I doubt that’s DC’s intention. Unless DC outright comes out with “NO BOYS ALLOWED *slaps onto a pillow fort next to the books*” I don’t think they’ll care who buys the content so long as the content is buying bought, yeah?
I mean you’re right in the sense that certain advertisements could be fixed to be “gender neutral” but I dunno… do we package things with no one on it because “we can’t show a gender/target-audience?”
I’m probably not being clear: I agree and disagree with you on this being a “big deal” because IMO it isn’t a huge deal and I don’t think DC/companies are intentionally doing it to divide and at the end of the day people themselves can “cut through the bullshit” and buy “for girl/boy” items for the opposite gender. The bigger problem is generations of gender-roles being enforced to where those people are being put into company roles to where the “for girl/boy” marketing feels like an attack more than a PR mouth-piece for a target audience. I guess.
I think I’m going to shut up now since this is badly worded. Blech.
April 23, 2015 — 2:03 PM
thehowlingpig says:
I don’t see marketers getting any smarter about this shit though. The new trick is to tailor material to more specific niches – I can get collectible Star Wars macaroni and cheese and somebody will probably send me a coupon based on my demographic and interests.
Unfortunately, kids don’t have purchasing history or fit into easily niches so marketers take the lazy but ultimately toxic route of sticking to the girls/boys category. That’s instead of either doing the demographic research to find out what things really appeal to what people, or making products that are undeniably kickass for everyone.
April 23, 2015 — 2:08 PM
Sarah Snarkerson says:
This is why I give my nephews copies of Princeless and Lumberjanes! Girls grow up learning to relate to boys through the books we read and the cartoons we watch – the same isn’t an option or an expectation for boys. Auntie Feminist isn’t letting that happen here.
April 23, 2015 — 2:31 PM
donnaeve says:
Great post. Thoughtful comments. I’d love to hear your take on “women’s fiction,” one of these days – if you haven’t already done a post on that.
April 23, 2015 — 4:25 PM
terribleminds says:
Maureen Johnson’s “cover flip” challenge is pretty amazing:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/07/coverflip-maureen-johnson_n_3231935.html
April 24, 2015 — 9:09 AM
donnaeve says:
Thank you for that. It was like she and I had some sort of mind meld.
April 24, 2015 — 11:31 AM
Wendy Christopher says:
Yep, my heart also sank just a little bit (well, quite a lot actually) when I saw that picture and heard the ‘just for girls!’ battle-squee.
You are bang on the money in everything you said Chuck. I can’t shake the feeling that what they’re REALLY doing is making a ‘separate’ category of superheroes ‘just for girls’ – so that the ‘proper superheroes’ (i.e. the manly male ones) don’t have to share comic time with girly girl superheroes. Kind of like “Doh, okaaay then, we get it, girl superheroes are just as great and you all want them and they’re aren’t enough of them now…. there, here you go, we’ve made some lovely new girl superheroes just for you. Now… you go play OVER THERE with them, and we’ll just carry on playing with our original superheroes OVER HERE, the way we LIKE playing with them. NO, you can’t come play with us, you play differently and you’ll spoil our game – you’ve got your OWN game now that we made ‘specially for you… GO AWAAAYY!”
…Or perhaps I’m over-reacting and it’s just kind of cringey and ridiculous in the way the whole Nerf/Nerf Rebelle thing is – “Oh yeah, girls can shoot Nerf weapons too…. BUT ONLY IF THEY’RE EYEBALL-SEARING PINK AND PURPLE! We sussed it out folks – THAT’s why they’ve had NO INCLINATION WHATSOEVER to own a toy weapon before now! Are we forward-thinking geniuses or what?”
April 23, 2015 — 4:44 PM
terribleminds says:
There is that fear that they’re taking their OVERALL UNIVERSE and saying “ALL THIS IS FOR WHOEVER cough cough boys mostly” and then segregating this bit and saying LOOK GIRLS HEY HERE YOU GO. I hope that’s not what this is (something-something “separate but equal”), obviously.
April 24, 2015 — 9:07 AM
Susan Spann says:
Yes. Yes yes yes yes yes YES A BILLION TIMES YES THANK YOU.
It’s not about where the plumbing is located. It’s about the heart and soul.-
April 23, 2015 — 5:11 PM