[EDIT: Comments are now turned off. I’m having to wade through a rather epic middenheap of awful comments and toss most of them into the spam oubliette.]
This meme is going around Facebook.
And hey, by the way? Fuck this meme.
Listen, I get it. We have a toddler and having a child is challenging — way more than you think. You buy into this myth that somehow the physical control you possess over an infant — MOVE KID HERE, PLOP THEM HERE, DROP THEM IN THE SLEEP CUBE, STICK THEM ON THE HAMSTER WHEEL — is infinite. You assume that you will retain physical control over that child.
But it’s not long before you realize this is total horseshit. You can’t physically control them any more than you can restrain a chimpanzee by arm-wrestling him. A toddler is 30-40 pounds of flailing, slack-limbed weight. Shifting weight. Disproportionate weight. And the toddler may hit. Or bite. Or shriek. And you can’t stop them physically from doing that.
And so, you think: I can spank this kid. That will teach him to stop.
It sure might.
Just like if I want a woman to shut up, I might smack her across the mouth.
Just like if I don’t like what some guy is saying to me, maybe I punch him in the throat.
You wanna teach somebody to shut up? Start slapping, kicking, throwing punches.
Maybe swing a knife, point a gun.
You spank a kid, you hit a kid. I know, this meme would seem to harken to a simpler time, a har har har I warmed my kid’s butt and now he knows not to talk back to me time, a time when caveman ideals hid behind the smiling face of a smug, pipe-smoking 1950s father.
What I know is this: you spank your kid, you’re demonstrating that you’re a lazy, impatient, frustrated bully. You’re a brute who can’t handle his own child, who can’t actually teach anything or help your child understand the vagaries of life. Your intelligence level is equal only to the smacks you give, whether they’re to a kid’s ass or across his face or with a belt or a paint stirrer or a wooden spoon or whatever your weapon — because, that’s right, it’s a weapon.
My grandfather used to apparently beat the piss out of my father, and my father reportedly beat the piss out of my grandfather as a result. My Dad used the spanking thing once — one time, when I lied about putting a cat in the dryer when I was five (no, I wasn’t trying to kill the cat, it was winter and the dryer was warm and I thought the cat would like it, shut up). He spanked my ass and I never forgot it. I mean — I never forgot it. I don’t know that I remember much from being five-years-old, but I sure as hell remember that. Not in the good way. I don’t remember it in the, “Now I understand why lying is bad” way. But in the “I should be afraid of this guy” way. In the “I gotta get better at lying so I can avoid the paint stirrer,” a device that sat forever on our counter and was referenced time and time again as a reason for me to “behave.” I acted up and him reaching for that paint stirrer was all it took to cause me to settle the hell down.
It worked.
It worked to scare me. It worked to keep the peace. Damn right I behaved.
But it didn’t teach me anything. It didn’t make me a better person. It just made me scared.
And it made me real angry.
I’m not saying my father was a bad Dad. Frankly, I’m surprised he wasn’t meaner sometimes given the stories I heard of how my grandfather treated him. Abuse begets abuse. It’s kicked dogs all the way down. I loved my father and am still sad as hell that he passed just as we were becoming friends again. But we had a big gulf between us for a number of years and I can tell you at the very bottom of one of those deep dark chasms that separated us lurked that singular moment of him beating my ass — and then threatening to hit me again and again over the years.
Don’t hit your kids.
Don’t pass around a meme that encourages people to hit your kids.
Kids are smaller than you. They’re weaker. They’re a little cocktail shaker of emotions and hormones and unformed lessons. You’re supposed to be the rock they hold onto in tough times, not the rock you hit them with when they’re acting like all children do because they’re children.
People always say they can’t imagine hitting their own kids. I can imagine it. I can imagine hitting my son. What that’ll do to him. I can imagine the little mote of hate inside of him, that little ember of anger, the little seed of resentment planted — because here I am, a father supposed to offer him a hand up and instead I bring that hand against him.
It’s horrible. It gives me nausea just thinking about it.
So —
Cut that fucking meme out. Stop passing it around.
It isn’t funny.
It isn’t twee haw haw haw oh-what-a-simpler-time.
It’s called hitting children. And it ain’t cute. So cut that shit out.
jessiedevine says:
AGREED.
December 23, 2013 — 8:48 PM
Katherine G says:
This. Well said.
December 23, 2013 — 8:49 PM
Michelle says:
Well said, Chuck. You can teach your kids to be good people without having to resort to this. My parents did it, even though they raised me “in a simpler time.”
December 23, 2013 — 8:50 PM
Francis Knight says:
Wait — this is a thing? People actually think you learn respect by getting your arse whupped? People are very much stranger than I thought…
My kids respect other people just fine. We achieved that by talking. Unless of course you mean “obey everything you are told”. Because teaching your kids that would be stupid. I prefer to teach my kids to think, and make up their minds for themselves. They respect people who deserve it. They don’t respect arseholes who whup people.
Pretty sure I can live with that
Pretty sure
December 23, 2013 — 8:50 PM
Angie says:
A-fricken-men, Mr. Wendig.
December 23, 2013 — 8:51 PM
Moonshine Meret says:
Very nicely put. I used to get beaten as a kid, and it never worked to make me a better person… just a more creative liar. As a result, I plan on never doing the same to my own kids, and explaining to them why things are wrong, and not just beating it into them.
December 23, 2013 — 8:52 PM
Thomas Pluck says:
Thank you for spreading the word. It is our job to progress, not make our children suffer through what we may have. “It did me good” or “it didn’t hurt me any” is a load of crap. Your parents did it to you. If they were otherwise loving parents, it becomes incredibly difficult to view their behavior with any kind of objectivity. Because they’re your mom and dad. Resorting to violence with children is incredibly weak. Do you beat your dog, too? Kick the cat? Because they don’t understand your commands? It’s the same thing.
December 23, 2013 — 8:52 PM
Imelda Evans says:
The funny thing is, before I had a child, I might not have thought much of this. But as soon as the child, that I loved and was responsible for, was in front of me, and I was the one with the potential to spank, it became pellucidly clear that hitting the child is about the parent losing it, not about fixing anything, much less teaching. And if it is unacceptable for me to hit another adult because they’re being annoying and I’m at the end of my tether, how can it possibly be right to hit someone smaller and weaker who relies on me for everything? When it was me with the power, the appropriate use of the power became so obvious that I wonder that it can be a question.
December 23, 2013 — 9:03 PM
Thomas Pluck says:
via Andrew Vachss, the wise words of Alice Miller:
“Many researchers have already proved that corporal punishment can indeed produce obedient children in the short term but, in the long term, it will have serious negative consequences on the child’s character and behavior…
Children should not be the scapegoats for the painful experiences of adults. The claim that mild punishments (slaps or smacks) have no detrimental effects is still widespread because we learned this message at a very early age from our parents, who had taken it over from their own parents. This conviction helped the child to minimize his suffering and to endure it. Unfortunately, the main damage it causes is precisely our numbness, as well as the lack of sensitivity for our children’s pain. The result of the broad dissemination of this damage is that each successive generation is subjected to the tragic effects of seemingly harmless physical “correction.” Many parents still think: What didn’t hurt me can’t hurt my child. They don’t realize that their conclusion is wrong because they never challenged their assumption.
When legislation laws prohibiting corporal punishment were launched in Sweden in 1977, 70% of the citizens asked for their opinion were against it. In 1998, the figure has dropped to 10%. These statistics show that the mentality of the Swedish population has radically changed in the course of a mere twenty years. A destructive tradition of millennia has been done away with thanks to this legislation.
It is imperative to launch such legislation—prohibiting corporal punishment—all over the world. It does not set out to incriminate anyone but is designed to have a protective and informative function for parents. Sanctions could simply take the form of the obligation for parents to internalize information available today on the consequences of corporal punishment. Information on the “well-meant smack” should therefore be broadcasted to all, since unconscious education to violence takes root very early and inflicts disastrous imprints. The vital interests of society as a whole are at stake.”
December 23, 2013 — 9:04 PM
Paul Weimer (@PrinceJvstin) says:
My family did a different sort of corporal punishment, one suited to our Catholic heritage.
Kneeling.
Kneeling for long periods on a hard floor is painful and gives you a lot of time to think, especially if you have to be silent. My parents did not use this often, but they used it effectively.
Its still corporal punishment, but of a different sort. Was it *better*? I honestly don’t know still.
December 23, 2013 — 9:11 PM
Harry Connolly says:
Yes.
December 23, 2013 — 9:15 PM
Erin says:
Thank you so much for this.
December 23, 2013 — 9:15 PM
Sandra Cormier says:
I remember the two times my dad hit me. He only did it twice. Once, when we were yapping in the back seat of the car. Dad gave us a warning. My brother chirped again & dad reached behind him and connected with my face. The other time, I was in the bathroom. Mom yelled, “Who got into my perfume?” Dad stomps down the hall, opens the bathroom door, sees me fiddling with a bottle cap and smacks me. WTF?
Mom had a temper. She shot first and asked questions later. But, for some reason, I didn’t retain memories of her connecting with a slap to the butt or a hair brush to the head. Maybe the frequency deadened the sharpness of the hurt.
The ones from Dad hurt, because he is normally an even-tempered fellow. Plus, the punishment was unwarranted. I felt betrayed.
I consciously refrained from striking my children, but didn’t always win that little war inside my head. I think the urge for corporal punishment weakens from generation to generation. At least, I hope so.
December 23, 2013 — 9:17 PM
T.J. says:
Its interesting to me that over the last twenty plus years the “everyone gets a ribbon” and “never make consequences hurt” doctrine has gained steam at almost the same rate as the steady decline of America as world icon. In the days of spanking, everybody wanted to be like us. Now? Not so much…
I’m sure some psychologist somewhere is confident that spanking leads to serial killing. I think choices have consequences, and sometimes consequences hurt. The sooner one learns that, the better pared they’ll be. Let the hate fest commence…
December 23, 2013 — 9:18 PM
terribleminds says:
Fuck you.
December 23, 2013 — 9:32 PM
T.J. says:
That’s about what I expected. You think any parent who uses spanking is a rage crazed ape and is simply lashing out in frustration and anger…that its all fear and no learning. Like cussing out someone who politely disagrees with you. I’m sure that it IS the case with some who spank… and clearly some folks above experienced that. That is abuse, and is abhorrent. But some lessons need more than a speech and time to think. In my house, spanking is the third stage… and its never done in anger. First, we talk about what happened, why its wrong, and I get their agreement to not do whatever it was again. Second is another talk and loss of privilege, and the understanding that its no longer a matter of understanding, but of choice. I also make it clear if it happens again, the spanking will occur. I’m not mad, I don’t use a belt, don’t threaten with it or put it on display. If it goes there, when its over we talk again, and I explain I don’t want to ever do that again, and its completely within their control to make that happen. I can count on my hands the number of times I’ve had to go to stage 3, and my kids are amazing.
If you think spanking is bad, don’t do it. I respect that. If you let your assumptions define the intent of every person everywhere who disagrees with you however, then you aren’t quite as open minded as you seem to believe you are.
December 23, 2013 — 9:53 PM
terribleminds says:
See, here’s where I don’t quite buy into personal liberty quite this far. If I’m going to believe that spanking is hitting — which I do, because it is — then what kind of a weakly-principled person am I to say, “Well, I don’t mind if you hit your kids, as long as I’m not expected to hit mine?”
Do you seriously have no better way to handle your children than by hitting them?
— c.
December 23, 2013 — 10:08 PM
T.J. says:
Here is the thing, I understand why you feel the way you do. But you’ve decided the only view with merit is yours, and all who disagree must be, not people with a different view, but BAD people. If you have a blog to express your views so you can have your fans all tell you how great you are and how fantastic your views are, that’s fine… heck, its your blog. I’ll keep my mouth shut from now on and let your sycophants hold court. I like a lot of what you say here, in part because you aren’t afraid to put forth an unpopular or non-standard viewpoint. I replied here, knowing I’d get lit up, because I imagine some people can’t imagine how spanking could ever be constructive. My parents practiced with me the method I described. When it occasionally happened, I KNEW it was my fault, a result of my choices, not because my dad was mad. I DID learn to control myself… and I LOVE my parents for it. I’m sitting here in their living room with my kids for the holidays, knowing I am where I am today because I learned to take responsibility for my actions from them.
I get why you feel the way you do. I don’t think you even tried to see why I feel the way I do… and that’s your right.
December 23, 2013 — 10:30 PM
terribleminds says:
TJ:
Of course I tried. I just wrote in a blog post that I was myself a spanked kid. And that I have considered the notion of spanking my own son.
And none of it thrills me. All of it sickens me.
If you bent another adult over your knee and whacked ’em around on the ass or otherwise, that’d be assault. Maybe sexual assault, even.
If you decided to perform corporal punishment on a woman who offended you or didn’t act the way you wanted because you were trying to set her straight, that’s also a crime.
But somehow, we’re allowed to do that to our children. Who are, in effect and as a result, property more than they are people by that standard.
And I think that’s fucked up.
— c.
December 23, 2013 — 10:35 PM
Amber J Gardner says:
T.J.: If you could get the exact same result you described, but do it without spanking, would you still use spanking or the nonviolent method?
I think that’s the overall message. That spanking just might not be necessary to teach a child about consequences.
December 23, 2013 — 10:47 PM
Jeff says:
I’d agree with you T.J in that as much as everyone here believes they are so open minded they sure do act the opposite. The whole “Fuck you if you don’t agree with my opinion. You are a bad person if you do this or that. I refuse to respect your opinion.” as shown by the author’s comments and replies.
In today’s age it’s frowned upon to lay a hand on your child. Real life example of something I witnessed. A 12 year old child was upset she wasn’t getting her way. So, she started pulling down the curtain rods and ripping down the blinds. The father ran over and tried to make her stop. He tried restraining her to get her to calm down because words weren’t working at that point. He picked her up and took her to her room. In the process she received a small red mark on her leg from him carrying her. CPS was then called and investigated the father for child abuse. The worker told me the golden rule is you can’t leave any sort of mark whatsoever, even if you are trying to restrain them. I just stood there bewildered.
I’m not a father yet but I should be able to discipline my child as I see fit as long as it falls under the law. I’m not saying spanking is the answer but I don’t disagree with it either. I just had to comment this time because of Chuck’s replies, as they were well constructed. I’m going to raise my children the way I see fit whether that makes you a frothy spit-raging maniac or not.
December 23, 2013 — 11:09 PM
christophergronlund says:
Nice of you to say EVERYONE feels that way. My brother-in-law spanked his kids, but it was always after chances and he took them to another room and made it clear it was not out of anger. Not my thing, but he never hit them out of anger. It was never done around me, and obviously, I never felt it was such a terrible thing that I reported the manner he chose to discipline his children.
I said in my reply that I know some people who were spanked who turned out well. I was never spanked. I think it’s an easy out, and I know plenty of friends who have raised cool kids who were never spanked. But not everyone here is falls under your sweeping label of being close minded.
December 24, 2013 — 12:13 AM
Amber J Gardner says:
I find it interesting that neither of you two tried to respond to Chuck’s second comment that explains further his opinion to the first comment.
I think his “Fuck you” was his response and his opinion expressed to the comment, as T.J. and your comments are also. I don’t get why opinions can’t be expressed without having to go with the whole “you’re close minded and wont let me express myself!”
He is letting you both express your opinions (he hasnt deleted them, has he?). He’s also saying “Fuck you.” That’s pretty much it. There’s no close mindedness going on here.
In my own personal experience, I’ve noticed that those who demand for others to be more opened minded are usually the most closed minded people I’ve met.
December 24, 2013 — 12:55 AM
Jeff Xilon says:
Here’s the problem people who don’t disagree with spanking never seem to get. An act of uncontrollable anger like you describe with the 12 year old doesn’t happen in a vacuum. A twelve year old doesn’t just start tearing down curtain rods because they can’t get their own way unless something else is going on. Whether it’s nurture (poor parenting, being bullied at school, etc.) or nature (something out of whack in the brain chemistry) that just doesn’t happen. People shouldn’t be allowed to hit kids just because they’ve failed to raise a kid who absolutely can’t respond to anything else or, even worse, who have something “wrong” with them that needs addressing. As for the CPS investigation – did the father actually get in trouble? Or was he just investigated? I mean, if a kid is going to school with marks on them there SHOULD be questions asked. If they aren’t then how can the kids who ARE being abused ever be protected?
December 25, 2013 — 12:37 AM
C. E. Coburn says:
Open-mindedness and personal opinion should not be taken into account. A child is a human being and so has right to their own body. Whether you believe it is right or wrong is irrelevant because it is not your body, it is theirs. One human giving away the rights to another human’s body is never a good idea and is only a few steps removed from slavery and rape.
How many times a day do you make a mistake? Or act in a way that is less desirable than it could be? Rather than being given space, and support, would you appreciate being slapped? I think you might change your tune if you were.
Next time your child behaves poorly enough for you to feel physical punishment is warranted why don’t you have them hit you instead since you’re the parent and you seem to like it so much?
December 24, 2013 — 1:35 AM
ThinkingClearly says:
Wow, after such as well articulated blog, the best response you can come back with is “Fuck you”. Shame on you, such a poor effort and a lash out in rage is the verbal equivalent to spanking instead of putting the other chap in his place. It seems like you have learnt nothing of your own lessons.
December 24, 2013 — 6:42 AM
Amber J Gardner says:
“You’re a fucking retard” = verbal abuse (I suppose “a verbal spanking”, which is stupid fake phrase that has nothing to do with real spanking, but whatever)
“Fuck you.” = expression of anger towards another’s opinion.
Not the same thing.
December 24, 2013 — 10:06 AM
terribleminds says:
Let me offer a response that is less inflammatory than my other (though be assured, my earlier middle finger still stands tall and proud as a redwood):
Choices have consequences.
Spanking is a choice.
And it has consequences.
http://www.livescience.com/7895-children-spanked-iqs.html
Lowered IQ. Increased aggression. Increased depression.
http://health.heraldtribune.com/2012/06/05/dr-oz-spanking-lowers-iq-raises-aggression/
The sooner one learns that, the sooner one might realize that hitting their kids is not the best way to actually “fix America,” nor is failing to spank your kids IN ANY WAY the same fucking thing as handing out trophies or ribbons to everyone to make sure they’re a winner.
Now, to revisit the earlier response:
Fuck you, again.
— c.
December 23, 2013 — 9:44 PM
Amber J Gardner says:
I just wanted to say…that’s an incredibly horrible/faulty argument.
You could also say that in the last twenty years there has been a rise in sales of hybrid cars at the same rate as the decline of America as a world icon (um, which you measure how exactly?) or pretty much replace anything after “last twenty plus years” of your comment.
So yeah…um..what Chuck said.
Because I’m pretty sure you’re a troll or ignorant.
December 23, 2013 — 9:48 PM
ThinkingClearly says:
Having read the entire thread, I have to say that you arguments are also lacklustre.
– “That spanking just might not be necessary to teach a child about consequences.”
This leaves the implicit notion that “That spanking just MIGHT be necessary to teach a child about consequences.”
– “I think his “Fuck you” was his response and his opinion expressed to the comment…”
That is a closed minded verbal spanking, used in anger at the disagreement of another person’s opinion. Frankly it is a poor way to try to convince someone of your world view, especially if you don’t follow it up with something constructive. I know you are thinking “but he did follow it up” Yes, well that was only after a secondary well thought out and articulated response from TJ. Don’t let emotions be the engine of your logical debate.
– “He hasn’t deleted your comments”
Nor should he. If there was only ever one side to an argument, then there would be a lot less learning. This idea that the author has graciously permitted someone else’s opinions has zero contribution to the debate.
– “Because I’m pretty sure you’re a troll or ignorant.”
The comparison of ‘over the last 20 years’ is a poor one, agreed. Calling him a troll or ignorant, only compounds your own ignorance and trolliness by bringing yourself to lower level. Don’t make it personal, engage with the arguments put forward, if they are poor take them apart and let others decide on their status as ‘ignorants’ or ‘trolls’
December 24, 2013 — 7:30 AM
Amber J Gardner says:
His fuck you was not a nonverbal spanking. Plus, that’s just a silly notion to begin with, but I’ll play. Those words are backed by his post and his second comment, which is better backed than tjs comments. It doesnt matter if it comes later or earlier. It’s there now. Also the author uses foul language. Always has.So yeah, I disagree with the whole it’s the same as spanking and making him close minded or a hypocrite or something. That’s just plain stupid, in my opinion.
I’m not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just asking questions, expressing what think, and hopefully getting people to think. I don’t care if you don’t agree, but I feel you misinterpret some stuff.
He hasn’t deleted his comments doesn’t attribute to the spanking debate, but does tribute to the whole, the author is closed minded to comments that doesnt agree with the post that to mentioned.
He sounded like a troll to me. *shrug* I never said I couldn’t be wrong.
December 24, 2013 — 9:55 AM
Francis Knight says:
Everyone gets a ribbon and let’s not smack the crap out of our kids are not the same thing
One is not teaching your kids that violence is a great option to deal with someone you don;t disagree with
The other is something I’ve never seen in either of my kid’s schools and is probably either made up by a papers or is as non-prevalent as , I don’ know. dragons.
Oh wait, they id have dragons at the school
Teaching kids to think rather than just whack the crap out of what they don’t get is..actually probably a good thing? Because of that whole tolerance thing. May be you’ve heard of it?
I mean I’m not Christian but this is a good message:
With all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love,
December 23, 2013 — 9:55 PM
Tim Nutting says:
Here’s your problem TJ. American exceptionalism is bullshit. It’s bombing brown people in caves and using threats of economic collapse to make money. Tying your argument to that is ludicrous in the extreme and speaks of a faithful belief in propaganda, not fact.
I was spanked as a child. It was very much as you have described later on. How did that work? Well now I’m an apostate atheist who calls Jesus a bully because the fucker can’t handle debate, and I will never have kids because… Why?
And that’s bullshit too.
There’s only anecdotal connection to my refutation of my family’s faith and my spanking, frankly it had much more to do with praising slavery and rape within the holy writ. Point? For all of you. Proof doesn’t exist, and humans are mercurial and complex.
Chuck has great ground for a moral stand. Hitting a child is hitting another human.
Lots of us have no problem with that though, and we are really good at justifying why. All law descends from violence, after all.
December 24, 2013 — 5:15 AM
Tasha Turner says:
I get restraining a child to keep them from harming themselves or others. But spanking just proves that the bigger person wins. It teaches bullying. I remember my dad threatening to hit us with his belt… I think a neighbor handled his kids that way; I have vague memories of overnights at their house… My dad never did hit us that I remember but the constant threat of violence was there and did not help me respect my dad. He died when I was 19 so I’ll never know if we might have found our way to respect after years of abuse as a child. What I learned from him was how to be bullied without complaining or thinking anything of it which made me an easy but sometimes boring target throughout school.
December 23, 2013 — 9:22 PM
Wendy L. Callahan says:
Thank you for posting this.
Someone posted this meme on my Facebook profile last week, when I mentioned I needed to get back to spankings and I was appalled. I had to clarify edit for a publisher who puts out BDSM and spanking stories.
I. Do. Not. Spank. My. Children.
December 23, 2013 — 9:43 PM
Wendy L. Callahan says:
clarify *that I* edit. (Please excuse me for multitasking!)
December 23, 2013 — 9:44 PM
Benjamin Blattberg says:
Amazing.
December 23, 2013 — 9:43 PM
Paul Mannering says:
Spanking children is illegal in New Zealand.
It is a criminal offence. If you hit your kid – they can arrest you and take you to jail.
It’s going to be interesting to see what happens in 20 years.
December 23, 2013 — 9:49 PM
Tracie McBride says:
Yes, it will be interesting to see what happens, Paul. It doesn’t look like the epidemic of “good” parents being convicted of child abuse that was predicted prior to the passing of the act in 2007 will come to pass; there have been only eight prosecutions for smacking in six years.
One would hope that, if the law is applied appropriately, in 20 years time New Zealand will no longer have one of the highest rates of physical child abuse in the developed world.
December 23, 2013 — 11:27 PM
Tammy Sparks says:
Yep, I was a kid when spanking was acceptable, but luckily it didn’t happen to me more than once or twice. I can’t imagine how I would feel about myself if I were to ever spank my kids.
December 23, 2013 — 9:49 PM
Cheryl says:
“Positive Parenting” is the phrase hapless parents are looking for- Google that in times of trouble and may Mother Mary come to you. Let it be. Let it be. Because parenting is damn hard.
December 23, 2013 — 9:51 PM
g2-dc45998e2db472f8333c926d041c10d9 says:
Yes.
I have a child who loves and respects me, because I love and respect her– not because I scare the crap out of her.
I have never forgotten being spanked, either. And it didn’t happen often. I will never do that to my child.
December 23, 2013 — 9:52 PM
Joanna Horrocks says:
T.J. (comments, above) is “sure some psychologist somewhere is confident that spanking leads to serial killing.”
You want to know what this psychologist is confident about? This psychologist is confident that once the spanking stops, the “bad” behavior returns. This psychologist is confident that spanking teaches a child to disrespect and sometimes fear the person who spanks her.
This psychologist is confident that too damn many of the damaged kids I work with have been abused, and that yes, sometimes that abuse began with spanking, because a parent who can’t think of another way to deal with a child is a parent who’s run out of options, and what do you do once your child no longer responds to spanking?
This psychologist is confident that too damn many of the damaged parents I work with abuse their children because that’s what they learned when they were children.
Abuse – the gift that keeps on giving.
Thanks, Chuck. Preach it.
December 23, 2013 — 9:53 PM
Leslie Dyann Hunter says:
Thanks for this, Chuck.
December 23, 2013 — 10:07 PM
ljcohen says:
Chuck–your little guy is lucky to have a dad who is actively working to break the cycle of violence going back several generations. Parenting is hard. It’s incredibly hard, especially if you internalize that control=good parenting message that seems to be so prevalent in our culture.
If you hit a child in anger, you teach the child that violence is acceptable when one is angry.
If you hit a child calmly while offering a rationale for physical harm, you teach the child that violence is a tool for control.
Neither message is in line with teaching appropriate consequences and helping the child learn the thing that is crucial: self regulation and self control.
How can a parent model and teach self control by losing control?
I think I may have actually hurt one of my sons once and it was accidental: when he was 4 or 5, he darted out into the street and I grabbed for him and missed, instead I ended up flattening him on the pavement. I figure the road rash was way better than being run over by a car.
And were there times in my parenting journey where I was *tempted* to smack them? Hell yeah. Trust me, I gave *myself* time outs.
December 23, 2013 — 10:36 PM
terribleminds says:
“If you hit a child in anger, you teach the child that violence is acceptable when one is angry.
If you hit a child calmly while offering a rationale for physical harm, you teach the child that violence is a tool for control.”
Better said than anything I bumbled through. Thanks, LJ. — c.
December 23, 2013 — 10:43 PM
AkephalonMuse says:
The messed up thing is it works. From about thirteen to twenty I was my family’s hackeysack, kicked around if something went wrong. Or disagreeing. Or being out of sorts; I was suicidal because I was sick of being hit by everything, and somehow that was my fault,so that was a beating . By the time I started trying to fight back I was physically broken, and had been mentally beaten since long before—the one time I tried to get help, I was caught, the medications were burned, and then I was beaten. Again. I had to go off the grid and drop my family to recover.
I still have a phobia of people reaching at me.
The author of this meme conflates fear with respect. S/He’s wrong.
December 24, 2013 — 3:51 AM
Lori Sailiata says:
My unspanked child will be getting her PhD this spring. I can’t tell you how many school administrators I told under no uncertain terms that they could not spank my children.
To my mind spanking has a perverse sexual connotation as it usually involves the removal of the the britches and often underwear to have bare hand, or board, or belt, or switch applied to the offending bottom.
Now in the post-50 shades world that we live in, that might sound like a lot of fun.
But we are talking children not consenting adults. I would posit that their are vestiges of both incest and pedophilia at the root…most assuredly suppressed. A Freudian field-day.
December 23, 2013 — 10:46 PM
Werner says:
There might be a valid argument in there somewhere, but to me it’s lost in the hyperbole. A spanking is a light swat on the bum, not beating the shit out of someone. It’s not something done out of anger. It’s not something done to embarrass. If you experienced those things, you didn’t get spanked, you were beaten.
I was spanked on extremely rare occasions, never with the embarrassment of having pants pulled down, and only as a last resort for extreme behavior at a very young age. I’d take a straight up spanking over the emotional trickery that many parents try to pull in its stead.
“That being said, #bdub also threw a MAGNUM-SIZE tantrum tonight. Worst we’ve seen in months. Like, a wasp swarm in a hurricane bad.” – Chuck Wendig
I’d be curious as to how you situations like that considering “Kids are smaller than you. They’re weaker. They’re a little cocktail shaker of emotions and hormones and unformed lessons.” That’s not a jab, just an honest question.
You bring a lot of hate towards anyone who doesn’t think like you, and you fail to offer any real alternatives to the people who might have been raised on spanking and still think it’s a good idea. What’s the point of posting something like this if not to make people think twice about something they might think is okay? That’s the laziest thing of all. You contribute nothing to the situation but anger. In essence, you’re trying to deliver a verbal spanking.
December 23, 2013 — 10:56 PM
terribleminds says:
“That being said, #bdub also threw a MAGNUM-SIZE tantrum tonight. Worst we’ve seen in months. Like, a wasp swarm in a hurricane bad.” – Chuck Wendig
I’d be curious as to how you situations like that considering “Kids are smaller than you. They’re weaker. They’re a little cocktail shaker of emotions and hormones and unformed lessons.” That’s not a jab, just an honest question.
Uhh, we handle it like his parents, which is to say with discipline and compassion. And we weather the storm and he comes out on the other side. He’s not even three years old. Are you suggesting I should’ve given him a swat?
I don’t need to offer you a solution other than, “Don’t spank your kids.”
— c.
December 24, 2013 — 1:34 AM
Vanades says:
A spanking is a light swat on the bum, not beating the shit out of someone. It’s not something done out of anger. It’s not something done to embarrass.
I disagree. I was spanked as a child (several swats on the bum, in one instance on the naked, wet ass) and my mom did it out of anger and exasperation at the situation and in that very moment. There was no rationale behind it beyond ‘get the child to behave and stop her from doing X (cussing, spashing her with water) again’. She still drags these stories out and tells them as ‘amusing’ anecdotes about my childhood. I find nothing amusing in them and I can relate to Chuck’s anger.
December 24, 2013 — 5:54 AM
steve christopher says:
Hey, I’ll hit the first person that says I’m violent!
December 23, 2013 — 10:58 PM
Brenda C says:
Amen. As a child of the 80’s in rural Oklahoma, my parents told me that if I got a spanking in school, I’d get one at home.
So I never told them about my third grade teacher who dealt out swats on a daily basis when kids didn’t finish timed math quizzes. Because I didn’t want a second spanking.
As an adult, I understand that it would’ve been different. As a child who was constantly in trouble? I was minimizing my damages.
I tell this story to every friend who’s become a parent now. It’s the best way I know of making my point.
December 23, 2013 — 11:05 PM
geminigrey says:
I’m a relatively new parent, as my daughter is only 16 months old, but my wife and I both agree that spanking isn’t the form of punishment we want to use. We were both spanked growing up, I more than her, but we just don’t see a situation where spanking would be preferable over any other kind of discipline.
On the issue of violence as a means of control, it absolutely is. Our society is pretty much upon the threat of violence, just with lots of layers of civilization built on top of it. Break a law and you will be physically detained, using violence if you resist. Run up an unpaid bill, get sued, and you will have your monetary assets seized, backed by the threat of violence. So it seem like saying that violence is not the answer is a little hypocritical to me. Sure it’s not acceptable for average people to do it, we’ve just outsourced our violence to selected authorities..police, soldiers, prison guards, etc.
December 23, 2013 — 11:07 PM
reduxnyc says:
Thank you for this Chuck. I haven’t seen this meme but I am glad you are speaking out about it. I was spanked and it’s just as you say – it made me fear my mother. It was one of a number of levers that drove a pretty big gulf between us that never was really bridged before she passed away.
What I have such a hard time with as an adult is seeing parents abusing their children in public. They smack them across their head or shake and drag them by their arm. It make me just want to walk up to the parent and slug them. Of course that would be battery and I could be arrested, but them doing the same thing to their own children is just “parenting.” Fuck. That. Shit.
A few months back I wrote about this cycle of violence and my thoughts on it:
We recently got a puppy. She doesn’t let us sleep as much as we used to. I tend to be the one who wakes up with her early in the morning. A few weeks ago I slept poorly and was in a foul mood in the morning. When the puppy was getting into something she shouldn’t I swatted her away. Unfortunately I did so in anger and with strength. I literally shoved her a few inches in the air and into the nearby wall.
She was wary of me for the rest of the morning. I felt horrible. I tried to “make it up to her” by giving her treats, feeding her breakfast immediately, etc. I felt sick the rest of the morning. This wasn’t the type of person I was. I didn’t hurt dogs.
As someone who was the victim of violence a lot as a child (mostly bullying) I tend to be passive. I don’t like violence and go out of my way not to be aggressive. As I have grown older though and been tired and frustrated and exasperated more times in my life, I have come to realize that the possibility of aggression and violence is there inside me.
My mother was a believer in spanking. For one reason or another she felt it had a place in parenting. I assume this was because she was spanked as a child as well. I am sure she truly thought that I “learned a lesson” when she spanked me, telling me all the while what lesson I should be learning. What I learned was to fear my mother. I don’t think children (and certainly not dogs) learn from the trauma of violence. Your mind is focused on making the pain stop, or just surviving it. Maybe afterward you try to use logic to figure out what you should have done differently, but the likelihood is you are too young and immature to remember that lesson in the future. Young children (like dogs) do many things because they are swept up by emotions and feelings and ideas, not because they have performed some sort of calculus weighing the possible outcomes and coming to a logical decision about the next action.
Although spanking (or beating) is certainly counter-productive for children learning anything useful, it is a release for the parent. It allows them to vent their frustration and tiredness directly on the cause of those things. It is one of the few times that society fully allows them to become violent and inflict pain and suffering on another human being without fear of legal consequences. So in the heat of the moment, a parent will do what feels good to them, even if they are saying “this is going to hurt me more than it is going to hurt you” as they do so.
In actuality I think there is a second thing children learn when they are spanked, beyond the fact that they should fear their parents, they learn that it is okay to hurt their children. A primal lesson is ensconced in their brain and some day in the future when they have a child and they are tired and exasperated and frustrated they will make use of that lesson. They will teach their child the same lessons they learned at the hands of their parents. The same one their child will teach their child.
December 23, 2013 — 11:12 PM
em says:
Man, it is a fucking messy process to help kids learn to self-regulate. People at the grocery store hate you, as if putting that shit ton of candy at the bottleneck at the register is helpful, at all. People on airplanes hate you.
Everyone wants you to shut your kid up, and make them behave. And it takes a constant patience, not only with the kids who need patience and attention, but the nitwits who think that kids should just be comatose adorables and behave quietly all the time (stick a screen in front of their face or sugar in their mouths, that’s what pleases the people around you).
Spanking? Life spanks us all enough. Parents who know that, and can comfort their kids and support them, those parents win. Their kids win, too.
December 23, 2013 — 11:13 PM
christophergronlund says:
I don’t have kids, but even still…I get that it happens. It really IS sad that people aren’t more patient when it’s clear the kid is with a parent who MUST shop and can’t leave a cart or the line. It’s not a hard thing to laugh it off or feel some pity for the tired, cranky kid and their parent who’s had a crappy day because you see it in their face. I almost expect to hear a crying/screaming kid every handful of trips to the grocery store, so I can’t see getting worked up by the crying kid I’ll soon be away from and–possibly–never encounter again. (Or most likely, pass in the same grocery store on the days they are quiet.)
The only time I’ve ever lost it at a grocery store is when I see a parent smack their kid out of anger in an effort to silence them. (Because THAT works.) No one hits a child in my presence in public because at that point it IS my business…
December 24, 2013 — 12:04 AM
K. Rich says:
I have two toddlers. I’m outnumbered on a daily basis. I’m not a spanker. However there were two occasions where one or the other got spanked. Once was in our driveway, we live on a very busy road, and while I was getting the 2yo out of the van the 3 yo got the door open and bolted for the street. I got to him just before he got to the street. I swatted his butt, it scared him, (I was terrified at this point) and I told him that he “CAN NOT run into the street!” He hasn’t done it again. We talked about staying away from moving cars, a conversation that we’ve had before, but hadn’t sunk in until the day of the spanking.
I don’t know if I would do anything differently if I got a do over on that situation. But I do believe that spanking as a form of discipline is just wrong.
December 23, 2013 — 11:23 PM
Clarkson says:
fwiw, the one time a toddler I was caring for got spanked (and he probably didn’t feel the one swat through the diaper) was one time when, playing on a lawn in a suburb, he suddenly turned, and ran like hell into the road, laughing madly. when I caught him, grabbed him, got him back off the street, he was collapsing in giggles, telling me, “funny!” and laughing more. I would tell him it was not, and I tried to get it into his head that he had just done something *terrifying*, and he just kept giggling. I felt that right at that moment, I had to get it into his head that he had just done something really bad; the lawn was in the suburb, but his parents and I both live in *very* urban places; the playground near where I live is actually bordered by a pretty busy parkway. It’s the one time I have ever spanked a child; I needed him to pay attention to me, *right then*, and stop thinking this was the funniest trick ever. Especially before we went home and he decided to try that somewhere fatal.
He was shocked by the swat, enough to snap him out of the giggling and exclamations of “Funny!”. I felt uncomfortable about it afterwards, but I *did* need to get that message into him, *right then*. I’ve never done it again, I do not regret doing it; it was the right decision (and like yours, he has not done it again). I would love to know a way to otherwise focus a toddler on a lesson that has to be gotten into them *right then*, because all the other things I was doing; holding him so he’d look at me and see I was unhappy, saying his name sternly and firmly to get him to listen, everything else was just making it even funnier in his head.
December 24, 2013 — 4:23 AM
boydstun215 says:
Well, sir, you have certainly put the *ahem* smack down on corporeal punishment.
I agree with what Chuck said about spanking being a purely punitive form of punishment that really has no instructive value. I grew up with parents who believed in spanking and while, yes, being swatted with a paddle (yup, a big wooden one like those you see in movies about kids in reform school) or a hand made me cease whatever crazy shit I was doing, the pain that it caused was just that . . . pain. Something elemental that just is what it is. Nothing to learn there except for different ways to say ouch or clench your butt cheeks to lessen the pain of a rear-end swat.
One might argue that, “Well, I explain to my child the reason for the spanking after I spank him.” Okay, but children can’t rationalize pain like adults can. Instead, that elemental pain simply gets transferred into something else elemental like the pain and anger that Chuck mentioned.
I don’t know . . . with all of the violence and ugliness and bullshit in the world we invariably must deal with, spanking seems like such an anachronism, such a shame, so unnecessary.
Spanking is such a cop-out, also. It’s a desperate, lazy form of discipline that communicates that you don’t want to communicate, just hurt. Setting rules, adhering to enforcing those rules (non-violently), and seeking ways to work through behavioral issues is a lot more work, but in the end children will benefit more.
December 23, 2013 — 11:25 PM
Penelope Crampton says:
I left my comment on GoodReads, but I will ditto the majority here–the meme sucks. I am a baby boomer raised by parents who used switches and spanked, and all it ever taught me for my own three kids was to NEVER HIT THEM, for whatever reason–NEVER. My husband was beaten as a child and he felt the same way–all you ever remember from the whippings, or spankings, is fear and pain–so we used the Time Out method; which worked like a charm on all three kids (two girls, one boy)–
They are grown now, educated, married and out on their own in the world–they are just fine, compassionate, snarky, sweet and capable. They are just fine with no spanking.
December 23, 2013 — 11:33 PM
christophergronlund says:
I was never spanked. Friends who were struck by their parents got in a lot more trouble than me. Discipline for me was this: I had to sit at the table, look my mom in the eye, tell her why she was disappointed in me, and tell her what I was going to do to remedy the situation. Trust me, I’d have much rather been struck because I saw my friends get the crap knocked out of them, walk it off, and go right back to being little shitmonkeys. In my case, though…when I was allowed more freedom than all my friends combined, it was also explained to me that it came from a trust I shouldn’t break. I knew what a good deal I had going, and I can think of all of a couple times sitting at the table as my mom made me tell her what I did to betray the trust extended to me.
The closest thing to being spanked was my high school principal wanting to paddle me. (That’s big in Texas.) I told him if he touched me that I’d view it as assault and defend myself (with force–his own paddle–if necessary). I was “in trouble” for wandering out of a drafting class and playing chess with a friend who made a chess board in shop. We were done with our assignments and being quiet, but the principal still wanted to paddle me. When he realized I was serious, he put the paddle up and sent me to the vice principal, whom I got along with.
I’ve heard so many people say you must spank a child in order for them to become a good adult. I know some REALLY fucked up adults who were spanked and lorded over by their parents, never given trust or credit. Most of the guys I know who were spanked and hit fought a lot…even became bullies. I never got into any real fights (I’d only defend myself after things got too bad, and even then…it was usually wrestling someone to the ground and pinning them–never hitting them) or any real trouble. I don’t have kids, but if I did, I can’t imagine spanking them just as I can’t imagine striking an adult. I would never strike anyone in my family, even if I thought it would get a desired result. I’ve known a few people who were spanked who turned out all right, but of the people I’ve met who were never struck and given trust with room to learn and fuck up now and then…they’re all all right. I can’t say the same for a lot of people I grew up with who were spanked regularly and never given trust. In almost every case I’ve seen involving spanking, it was always done out of anger or embarrassment…and that seems like one of the shittiest things you can do to a child.
December 23, 2013 — 11:49 PM
mcpm says:
Yes! Thank you for saying this!
December 23, 2013 — 11:55 PM
Wickedjulia says:
The worst thing is the mistrust never goes away for both parent and child.
December 24, 2013 — 12:05 AM
Lisa Pedersen says:
I CANNOT LOVE YOU ANY HARDER, CHUCK WENDIG! I was hit and slapped and punished as a child. I have PTSD and slept with a weapon in my bed until I married my husband. I NEVER HIT MY CHILD and she’s an honor student and gets A’s and B’s in college and respects the living hell outta me. Thank you.
December 24, 2013 — 12:07 AM
Deanne says:
I am not supposed to cry when I read your blog. I COME HERE FOR ENTERTAINMENT, DO YOU HEAR ME?!?!?!
I’m just going to go play with that profanity generator for a while and maybe send you a thank you card for saying all the things that I want to say when I see that fracking meme go around. (See — I really do need to word on my command of the Words of Power.)
December 24, 2013 — 12:23 AM
Rod Edler says:
Bull shit flag, twenty yard penalty! Repeat first down.
Hitting your child because your frustrated or angry is abusive. Spanking to demonstrate a do not cross line, yeah it can work. My rear end would have words with anyone that says it doesn’t if it’s used correctly.
That last bit is key, used correctly.
There is lies the problem with spanking, its too easy to use wrong. There are no warning labels or easy to fallow directions in five different languages. I have no issue with people choosing not to spank. I have really strong issues with anyone that does it for the wrong reasons.
Let me explain how this worked. The first time mom said no. The second time mom said no. The thirty-seventh time mom said no. The sixty first time mom took away a privilege and grounded. Each time I pushed the boundary a little further, the level of punishment escalated with equal measure. When the action hurt someone else, the board of education made a very valid point about why I should have listened to all the warnings that came before hand.
Did I fear her, no. Was I upset, yeah. Completely pissed off, because I stupidly pushed my mother to the point where she had little other choice put to fallow through on a promised action. That in itself is the biggest key to making any disciplinary action effective, fallowing through. It’s a simple act, but I don’t know how many times I see a parent threaten but fail to do anything. That threat become meaningless saber rattling. That teaches a kid that all the warnings are nothing to be concerned about, its like their actually going to do anything about it. I can get away with it. I honestly think that is building block for fundamentally flawed people used over and over again until live in this white tower where consequences have no meaning. Society is already full of empty threats and consequences as is, fallow through on taking away toys and treats, allowances and grounding is important and all have to happen before the paddle comes out.
Knowing full well that when I approached a do not cross line the board of education was there, I proceeded anyway. I ignored the warnings, I stubbornly continued down a path just to prove that I could do anything I wanted without having any concern what-so-ever about recourse. Then paddle met rear end. I still push boundaries, however I learned to stop pushing when I get warning signs. I at the very least stop and re-examine the rout I chose, and at the far end I choose I different rout.
Am I an angry person, no.
Do I hit other people, no. Only in self defense, only if becomes the only means to preserve safety of myself or people around me.
Do I argue, curse and scream. I very rarely raise my voice. I don’t have to make my point. It took I have no idea how many first dates to find someone else that had figured it out as well.
Do I hit my children, no. They have never acted in a way that justifies it. Tone of voice, taking their toys and privileges away and not allowing them to participate in things they wanted to do has suffice to redirect them for now. I hope telling the story of what it means to cross that line will help my children to understand what it means to take something way too far. By telling them story I’m not threatening them with anything, I’m holding myself up as an example.
But there’s more to it than just swinging paddle.
I’m going to say it again. There is more to it than swinging a paddle.
The paddle is not the lesson, its the consequence for not having bothered to take advantage off all the attempts to teach something important before hand.
The paddle is the do not cross line.
You want to see respect in action, I say no and they say “Yes, sir.” That is the end of it. Their mother says no, that is the end of it. How did we get there, it started with the first cries. We would show up, turn them over, pat them on the back and then walk away. “Yes, we are here watching over you.”
That’s the point right there. All that cute stuff they do when they are little. Their testing your boundaries right then and there. The want to know how far they can take it before you draw a line. You keep laughing, they keep pushing. It starts the moment they take their first breath, you have to build the foundation you start building at that moment. Can’t wait till their out of control, it starts then. 99% of parents screw up right there. That was the first advice my mother gave me when I told her she was about to be a grandmother. It wasn’t how to use a paddle, it was demonstrate early on that there are limits and consequences, the child will not get everything they want every time they act out.
It’s not about fear, it’s knowing full well that if I have to say it a second time their stuff is getting tossed in the garbage never to return. It’s knowing that if I have to say no a third time, more of their stuff is going to hit the can. Wages garnished, allowances will shrink. That next gadget they want, remember that thing you did, what did you do to make up for that, what makes you think you deserve this new thing? Oh crap, maybe I shouldn’t have done that. “Hey dad, I’ll mow the lawn!” Kids are smarter than they are often credited.
A friend of mine said training children is like training a horse. They will always choose the path of least resistance, its your job to make all paths but the one you want them to take more difficult than they are willing to deal with until they decide to take path of least resistance. You don’t have to beat a horse to teach it anything, just keep pointing out that it’s just easier for everyone if they get on the trainer on their own, or turn left when you nudge them.
What did I do to deserve a single profound whack with the board of education? I five finger discounted something. With a sore rear end I had to take it back to the store and apologize to the clerk and inform the police of what I had done. Anything less and I was never going to make it back to even with my family. I had embarrassed them all, I had lost all of their respect with one poor choice. That paddle was the attention getter, because after if left a single solitary welt on my rear end my mother calmly explained exactly what needed to be done to undo the mess I made for myself. I had to do it myself, she wasn’t going to help me back out of the hole I had dug for myself. It was cold, some say cruel, that’s what crossing the line should feel like.
That’s when you use the paddle. Not when they take the cookie or try lay claim to someone else’s toy. It’s when those lessons have come to pass and its clear the lesson still has not been learned. I took a video game from a store, that’s when it was time to learn that not only had I crossed my mother’s line, I also broke the law and had to answer for it, there was no escaping either one of them.
I’d still thank her for doing it. She’s still a little pissed at me for making her have to do it. I can see it in her face anytime the subject comes up.
Like I said, there are one million ways to do it wrong. There is a very thin line down the middle of how to use it effectively.
99.99% of people get it wrong. It would be better that they didn’t pick up a paddle. That’s the real issue.
It’s not black and white, nothing in this world ever is that simple.
December 24, 2013 — 12:36 AM
ljcohen says:
“The first time mom said no. The second time mom said no. The thirty-seventh time mom said no. The sixty first time mom took away a privilege. . . ”
If, as a parent, you refuse to intervene in a non-violent way until the 61st time, and then respond with a sudden violent act, what are you teaching the child?
All behavior has a reason. If a child persists in the face of 60 ‘no’s’ it means somewhere they got what they wanted at some point. In my mind, that’s not appropriate limit setting and discipline.
And trust me, you don’t know testing limits until you have a child on the Autism spectrum.
December 24, 2013 — 6:23 AM
emiloly says:
100% agree. I was disciplined physically as a child, then again as an adult. ALL it taught me was to fear the one person who was supposed to love and protect me. It taught me to fear, and to lie to protect myself. It taught me nothing good.
December 24, 2013 — 12:36 AM
mckkenzie says:
I find this business of saying that spanking teaches kids that actions have consequences in the real world to be totally baffling. In the real world, most misdeeds are punished by a fine or jail time or getting sued. You lose something important to you like your money or your freedom. At least in the U.S., you’re not generally punished by a beating. So doesn’t it make sense to teach your kids about real world consequences by taking away privileges…not hitting them? And I can tell you from experience that saying “do that one more time kiddo and your iPod is mine for the rest of the day” changes behavior pronto.
My siblings and I had the snot beaten out of us on a regular basis in the name of “teaching” us…and you know what it taught me? It taught me to fistfight. It taught me not to trust anyone. But most of all, it taught me to mark every day until my 18th birthday with a big fat X, waiting for the day I could escape. Is that really what you want for your kids, spanking advocates?
December 24, 2013 — 12:37 AM
T.L. Bodine says:
In my limited experience, I can say that the kids I knew who grew up being spanked are on the whole not better behaved than the kids who didn’t. In fact, it’s the opposite: My peers who grew up being spanked learned at an early age how to avoid getting *caught* doing something, not that doing it was inherently bad. This is the problem with all sorts of contrived consequences that are used as punishment.
And what happens when the spanking stops working? My fiance, for example, grew up being spanked for all sorts of things that he couldn’t really control — like potty training mistakes when he was 2. By the time he was school-aged, he was numbed to being spanked. It didn’t even phase him. So he would get punched in the kidneys or, in his teens, kicked in the balls. I wish I were kidding. I’m not.
I don’t have any kids myself. But I have a chihuahua who I rescued. He’s never been 100% reliably house-trained. But he has a curious habit: He will not pee in front of you. I’m pretty sure that’s because he learned from whatever dipshit originally owned him that *getting caught* peeing means that you’ll be smacked.
December 24, 2013 — 12:42 AM
Myas says:
When I read the 3-step warning that leads to getting hit, I felt as if I were a child awaiting sentencing. How awful. Negative conditioning doesn’t work – ever. Raising kids is work, there’s no easy way out, there’s no convenient way to raise them, but their lives are in your hands. There’s no instruction book that slides out in the afterbirth, but there are millions of approaches that can be used. In raising my kids I used them all and as I got to know them came up with a million more as I delighted in what I saw in them that was me as much as I apologized to them for habits they picked up from me, ‘oh my that’s me, I do that – I’m sorry’. It’s great when they get older and you can talk on a more grown-up level. Nonetheless in all of this, hitting just doesn’t enter into it.
I could say a lot more but I don’t want any psycho-experts taking out their knives and forks believing I’m their meal ticket. I’m a grandma now.
My father was an old-school catholic corporal punishment kind of guy. He was the monster I wanted to protect my brother and sister from, I might have been 5 or 6 when I became aware of that so my bother might have been 2 or 3 and my sister an infant or 1. Some responsibility for a little person, you think?
Don’t hit.
I’d like to second that f… you. I apologize for being unladylike.
December 24, 2013 — 12:53 AM
decayingorbits says:
One of the most important lessons a parent can teach a child is that actions have consequences. ALL actions have consequences.
December 24, 2013 — 1:08 AM
fmclaren says:
I find this an interesting debate. I was lightly (and I say lightly) spanked by my father. To this day he is the person I love most in the world. I respect him, he makes me feel safe, and I admire him as the most intelligent, principaled, honest man I know. I’m 32 now. I have worked with special needs children, rehabilating animals, as a writer, and many other jobs in between that involve a high level of caring and nurturing. I am responsible and respectful to each person I meet. Do I think my father a bad man or a man to be scared of? No, that could not be further from the truth. So, while there are many opinions on spanking (and I see that they are diverse), my own is that done in a controlled, soft manner, it is an acceptable manner of instilling responsibilty for one’s actions. I do not condemn anyone else’s opinions and wish for them to stand by them in any way that they will. But, though not PC, my opinion is this because I personally see a huge lack of discipline in the wolrd today (especially teens and pre-teens). I wish you all a happy holiday.
December 24, 2013 — 2:52 AM
Gaie Sebold says:
All spanking a child ever teaches them (and I cry absolute bullshit on those who claim a difference between ‘spanking’ and ‘hitting’ – if you hit me with the flat of your hand, you are hitting me, and it’s assault, chum, no more no less) is that the appropriate response to any situation you don’t like, is violence. I don’t have kids but I am an aunt several times over, I have friends with kids, I see parenting close at hand,and *none* of the parents I know ‘spank’ i.e. ‘hit’ their kids. And all those kids are doing well in school, or if they’ve left, have jobs and are responsible, respectful, fully functioning adults. Friends who was beaten as kids? Alcoholism, dysfunctional relationships, you name it. Violence begets violence and dysfunction, and those who think otherwise are simply fooling themselves. Of course I understand frustrated, desperate parents ‘wanting’ to smack, because parenting ‘is’ hard, and I understand the ‘fear smack’ – the only time I ever got smacked was once, when I ran into the road and nearly got hit by a passing car. My mum hit me out of fear. I get it. But other than that my parents did not spank, they were highly disciplinary in other ways, and – to refer to that disgusting meme – I am a damn sight more respectful of others than people who think it’s OK to hit someone smaller than you because you can’t be bothered to find a better way to deal with them.
December 24, 2013 — 3:14 AM
Gaie Sebold says:
Agh. ‘Were’ beaten, not ‘was’. Early morning grammar fail.
December 24, 2013 — 3:15 AM
Aaron Lenchanko says:
From the handful of comments that I’ve read below, it seems as if I’m going to buck the system a bit. I understand where you’re coming from in writing this article, that violence often begets more violence. That in many instances a spanking can lead a child to try to become a “better liar” rather than learning to not lie at all. That children are the most impressionable and vulnerable human beings, and violence should be the last thing that you’d want to introduce to them. That being said, I still believe that this kind of punishment can be just as effective in teaching a moral lesson as any other method when done the right way. The point isn’t the spanking itself, it’s the act of showing your child that there are consequences when they choose to misbehave. By explaining to them what their misdeed was and why they’re being spanked, you’re instilling in them the ideals that will allow them to become better citizens and human beings. I’d rather be the one to teach my children that their decisions have consequences than risk them learning it later in life, through the judicial system or worse. In the end, every child is different, just as every parent is, and decisions should be made accordingly. But I know that this kind of punishment had a hand in my upbringing, and as long as it’s paired with strong communication between the parent and the child, I see no problem with it.
December 24, 2013 — 3:21 AM
terribleminds says:
If the only consequence you have to offer as a parent is to spank the kid, then that’s worrisome.
December 24, 2013 — 7:30 AM
horrorrobotics says:
Thanks for saying this. I’ve heard variations of this meme – “I hit my child and they turned out alright.” – and I know the kid didn’t “turn out alright” because of the parenting style. They survived. They managed to hold onto their mental well-being.
Honestly, I don’t think being spanked when I was a kid taught me anything but “hide that paddle when your dad’s not looking”. And the things I remember being spanked for? The ones that come to mind first?
Not lying, or stealing, or hitting another kid.
They were morally inconsequential things, like accidentally knocking over a set of skis.
Not that I blame my dad (who dealt out most, if not all, of the spankings) but my experiences when I was younger definitely set a seed of resentment in me that he can never truly erase, no matter how kindly he treats me now.
December 24, 2013 — 4:14 AM