I don’t have any great thoughts here, but I wanted to introduce the discussion:
At Worldcon / LoneStarCon, the age felt… older. Youthful vigor was not on display like it seems to be every year at DragonCon. That’s worrisome because as a community, you don’t want to cleave so completely to an older generation because you can age out your genre work and your audience — right? I mean, one could argue that it serves as counterprogramming to DragonCon and PAX, but is that really the way you want to counterprogram? By hewing more (only?) to an older generation of fans and authors, though, I have to wonder if that’s healthy in terms of overall genre and industry. Don’t get me wrong, I had a blast at Worldcon, but for me it served as more of a professional connection and less so a fan connection, which is not necessarily ideal in terms of the monetary output I have to spend to get there. (Which is another issue: Worldcon ain’t cheap. DragonCon is cheaper. Younger fans have smaller income, so, there you go.)
Plus: YA Lit isn’t supported by the Hugos.
Which is sad and a little screwy.
Some of the best and bravest storytelling in the genre space is happening right now under our feet in Young Adult fiction. And it’s huge in terms of sales and audience. I met a great many writers at Worldcon who were YA writers or who were moving into that space. I met a lot of YA readers, too. And librarians. And booksellers. And our YA panel was packed. And yet, no YA on the Hugos. The argument against it is of course that YAs are not excluded from the Hugos and some YAs have won, so you don’t need a separate category, but for my mileage, the older audience of Worldcon will likely keep most YA held away from the competition for the most part. I say the Hugos already have a few curious redundancies and bringing YA to the table will open the accolades up to more books which means more book sales which means including younger fans. How can that be a bad thing? Is there something I’m missing?
(Gwenda Bond pointed out on Twitter that “Sexism’s in the mix, too — ‘not serious’ because it often contains romance, written/read by lots of women/girls.”)
@sblackmoore @andrhia @ChuckWendig Sexism's in the mix too–"not serious" b/c often contains romance, written/read by lots of women/girls.
— Gwenda Bond (is in the deadline cave) (@Gwenda) September 3, 2013
Don’t get me wrong — some of this is very much selfishly driven. My fans seem to skew younger. Some of my books are YA. But from a community standpoint it also pains me that there is a larger swath of fans — younger readers who have that great vigor and enthusiasm I’m talking about — who maybe aren’t being invited to the table. Or, at least, are being kept away from it with higher costs and a lack of recognition for what they love.
Worldcon is in London next year, which I’d love to attend to but I’m honestly not sure I can afford that kind of trip. As such, with DragonCon now disentangled from that heinous pedophile, I think I may have to try that, instead.
Happy to hear more thoughts on all this crazy stuff.
Did you go to Worldcon? Did you see the same things or am I just not looking hard enough? Did you dig on DragonCon (or PAX?) this year, instead?
Alisa Russell says:
I was a first-timer at DragonCon this year. Had a great time! I was one of the older fans there (late 40s) so I do agree with you that it skews younger. The fans I talked with though were very nice and courteous for the most part and were very willing to point me in the right direction. Also, I enjoy YA. Don’t know why people put it down so much. It’s as well written as some of the books for adults I’ve read.
September 3, 2013 — 11:08 AM
Fran Wilde says:
Let me sum up: One YA panel at LSC. ONE that I missed. If there had been more, I wouldn’t have MISSED THE ONE.
My 2nd flight home yesterday was from Atlanta. The plane was packed with Dragoncon folks. Even through the miasma of concrud, it was still a great party. So much fun.
September 3, 2013 — 11:10 AM
Emily Wagner says:
I was on two YA panels, and I’d swear I saw at least one other. Not that I think that negates your point, but still.
September 4, 2013 — 5:00 PM
Fran Wilde says:
I thank you for the correction – I am glad to hear there were more!
September 4, 2013 — 11:00 PM
Fran Wilde says:
I think I was scheduled against all of them.
September 4, 2013 — 11:00 PM
Kevin Hearne says:
Chuck, I can’t do London either. Will be going to Dragon*Con instead, so yay, see you there, my Taco Brother!
And in Tucson. And hopefully in Phoenix. 🙂
September 3, 2013 — 11:14 AM
Tammy Sparks says:
I’ve never been to World Con, but I still think Comic Con is a great option. It’s cheaper for one thing! And there are lots of teens and YAs there, probably more than World Con. And although publishing isn’t the main focus, you’d be amazed at the number of publishers/authors/panels/book signings there are these days. When I attended this year, I literally did four straight days of nothing but book stuff. Come to Comic Con, Chuck!!
September 3, 2013 — 11:19 AM
Lisa Deutsch Harrigan says:
Coming to Comic Con is actually hard. It is sold out. The hotels sell out before I can get in for a reservation. The lines are so long, I can’t get into the panels. What’s to like? I haven’t gone in years, and haven’t missed it. The last time I went, 25 per cent of my time was spent in lines, and I still didn’t get to some of the panels I wanted. And that was BEFORE it hit it’s ceiling.
September 4, 2013 — 1:53 AM
Michael Lee (@michaellorg) says:
I went to DragonCon this year, after having gone to the last two Worldcons. I’m not sure that DragonCon is always cheaper overall — the hotels are usually more expensive, and Worldcon moves around, so the travel costs will sometimes be more expensive than Atlanta, and other times cheaper.
I’m happy that the next several Worldcons will be on different weekends from Labor Day weekend. I don’t think it’d be likely that I could ever do both in the same year, but given the history of Worldcon I’d very much like to see it survive and thrive.
September 3, 2013 — 11:29 AM
Texas Triffid Ranch says:
Ah, a little story about running WorldCon on weekends other than Labor Day Weekend. After San Antonio got the bid, I was at a convention in Dallas where the Fan GoH, the then-head of the dealer’s room, and I were all vendors. While trying to get information about vendor space in San Antonio, I asked the dealer’s room head about whether LoneStarCon was thinking about moving to a different weekend. I brought up how the Reno WorldCon got attendance numbers not seen since the early Eighties because teachers and students were actually able to attend, and also because attendees felt that they didn’t have to choose between WorldCon and DragonCon. When I brought up the number of friends I knew who were faced with that predicament in 2013, he literally sneered at me “Well, that only affects maybe 250 people AT MOST.” That ended the discussion right there: while nobody said that this was intended to be a private party, they might as well have done so. (Earlier this year, when the vendor’s room registration finally opened up, I was asked if I was going to be down there. I looked at the table fees, and then noted that all potential vendors had to have full WorldCon memberships, paid in full, for every last person to be manning the table before they would be considered by a jury for inclusion. That’s when I told the truth: “If I wanted to blow a perfectly good birthday weekend and a few thousand dollars listening to a herd of humor-impaired seventysomething xenophobes crying impotently about how the world changed without their written permission, I’d go to a family reunion.”)
September 3, 2013 — 5:16 PM
Louise Hughes says:
I’m in the UK (also, mid-20s), so hoping to go to Loncon next year – only one I can afford, but I had to explain what Worldcon was to several similarly-aged friends at a recent gathering over here. Maybe I just have the wrong friends…I know roughly two people who I can talk about genre literature with, as it’s mostly film and TV genre works that get the attention.
Will be interesting to see the make-up of Loncon, given it’s further to travel for US fans, and therefore more expensive. It’ll be sad if US fans/writers decide for monetary reasons to stay state-side. I’ve been looking forward to actually being able to attend one. But I can totally understand it. I mean, I can’t afford to travel over there either 🙂
September 3, 2013 — 11:29 AM
shaunduke says:
This is something we discussed in one of the first walk-by interview/discussion recording sessions at Worldcon. I don’t know how much of a problem it is, as I’ve never attended Worldcon before. But it’s certainly cause for concern.
September 3, 2013 — 11:30 AM
Elaina/Mazuri says:
I attended Dragon*Con. It’s close to my house (3 hour drive), cheap if you buy tickets super early, and the overflow hotels with shuttle allow you to be close but not too close to the craziness that is the 5 host hotels. I saw more kids this year than I can remember – kids, not teens. They have an entire track dedicated to a younger audience (the Kaleidoscope track). Yet there are also the “older” tracks such as the actual science, and sceptics, and all that other stuff. I find it very inclusive to all ages. It’s a shame more cons don’t try to do that.
ps…if you go to Dragon*Con next year, I’m buying my tickets this week!
September 3, 2013 — 11:34 AM
Ellise H (@fullofstars) says:
I saw exactly what you did. (and I was at that panel, which was GREAT) This was my first Worldcon, but I’m no stranger to conventions. I come from an anime convention background, 10+ years of both fan & professional experience. I think you’d love Dragoncon, I’ve been only 3 times but they aren’t kidding when they say there is something for everyone. There is a whole YA TRACK at Dragoncon! I’m primarily writing YA scifi because it’s what turned me into a voracious reader.
September 3, 2013 — 11:35 AM
Michael R. Underwood says:
I’m all for WorldCon bids acknowledging that counter-programming against DragonCon is dumb, and moving WorldCon to another weekend. There are some big SF cons that seem to be finding the sweet spot of having good lit tracks and embracing younger fans, such as ConvergenceCon in Minneapolis. Convergence and DragonCon are where the future of SF is going, though. And we’d all be smart to start adapting, now.
September 3, 2013 — 11:38 AM
Betsy Dornbusch says:
Maybe it’s the economy? I mean, we’re looking at nearly a thousand dollar weekend almost any way you count it up. I am thinking of DragonCon next year, but probably only if I get some assurance of programming. I felt like WorldCon this year was just smaller than usual.
DragonCon “feels” more inclusive of fans, somehow, though I haven’t been. It covers more genres and has more of a fun feel. WorldCon almost feels a bit stodgy at times–like it’s the more “serious” folks.
There’s a lot of competition out there, also: DragonCon and sizable ComicCons in various cities and Denver has Starfest (thousands of people) and multiple smaller cons.
September 3, 2013 — 11:42 AM
Will Weisser says:
It was my first Worldcon this year. I had fun meeting you, Chuck. It’s hard not to notice how the ages skew relative to other SF/F-related groupings, though at the same time I found myself thinking how lucky we are to have a community that values its older generation. C. Robert Cargill made the point to me that SF writing is essentially the only job where you get more valuable as you get older, and as a programmer by trade I can’t say my experience holds different. Some of the best advice this year I got from hanging around after panels with people who had been in the business for many years, and it’s nice to think that if I’m lucky enough and dedicated enough I could still have a place in the community long after my teeth and non-gray hairs have abandoned me.
But yeah, it would be cool to have Worldcon be a little more like Dragon*con, because the folks who chose to spend the weekend in Atlanta are fans, too. It will be interesting to see if, by the time guys like you are taking over the mantle of organizing cons, Worldcon will have evolved to bring in more youthful energy or whether it will slowly die out.
September 3, 2013 — 11:42 AM
M. L. Brennan says:
There was definitely a demographic skew at WorldCon. I had a lot of fun there — definitely the attendees were pretty much all very serious readers, which was a pleasure to talk with, but I think in terms of basic survival of the con, Worldcon is going to have to very seriously bring in a new generation within the next 5-10 years. Price is a big part of that, and I think so is embracing the YA genre.
Here’s a fun anecdote — I was at the SFWA table, and I struck up a conversation with a guy who probably looked like he was in his late 40s, early 50s. It was a pretty good talk, and at the end of it he decided that he wanted to get a copy of my book. So he went off, then came back, and asked me to address it to, “the old man” at WorldCon. I looked at him, laughed, and said, “Here? No, you’re definitely one of the whipper-snapper generation.” He laughed as well, and had to agree — especially since we had just been joined at the table by a very nice gentleman who was wearing his WWII hat. (I also ended up having a good chat with that guy as well about his plans for an alternative history sf novel!)
September 3, 2013 — 11:43 AM
Mike Lee says:
A couple observations: Dragon*Con is at least as expensive as World Con, if not more so. We live within driving distance of Atlanta, and it still costs us almost as much to go to as San Diego Comic Con. So it’s not a question of money, really.
Fandom isn’t graying. If anything, it’s been growing larger and younger with every passing year. World Con is just becoming an increasingly professional convention, much like World Fantasy, and has made little to no effort to re-cast itself into a pop culture behemoth like Dragon*Con. Which is not a bad thing, by any means.
But I agree that World Con and the Hugos seem to be turning increasingly insular and stodgy, which is a terrible shame.
September 3, 2013 — 11:45 AM
joe says:
The other absence in the room was people of color. There were some authors, but almost no fans. I am a Caucasian who lives in San Antonio, and when I stepped out into the mall, I was in the minority (as I should be in the beautiful patchwork of cultures in my fair city) but once in the event itself there were so few fans of color that a Caribbean writer friend was counting them on her hands, and did not run out of fingers, even after going to panels about minority authors and voices.
It was a really weird feeling to be in San Antonio, and to have so few people of color that you could count them on two hands, almost.
September 3, 2013 — 12:19 PM
terribleminds says:
Entirely true. And I wonder if appealing to youth helps that at least a little bit. Generally, youth seems to be more progressive. Generally.
September 3, 2013 — 12:41 PM
Jeb says:
Plus youth demographics are more ethnically diverse in general.
September 4, 2013 — 9:21 AM
Christopher Robin Negelein says:
I noticed an even weirder age gap. Generation X was mostly absent.
I can’t say completely absent since I was there, but I guess that’s why I noticed that missing generation while I avoided the mini-traffic jams of scooters for the professionals and fans(60 years plus). And when I met the low 30s and under crowd, they were all pros.
In chatting with people about it, there were three main theories:
1.) They are in the middle of raising families, something the bookend generations have either finished or not yet started. So no time or funding for a Con.
2.) A lot of us are back in school, changing careers to just keep a day job since writing is becoming less and less of stand alone career track … at least for now.
3.) We fell into a “communication gap” and missed our chance to connect with a mentor. — Either we jumped on BBS when our older heroes were still writing letters, or the new kids are supporting and learning from each other much better with social media.
September 3, 2013 — 12:38 PM
zer_netmouse says:
Nod. And for those of us in the middle of raising families (or going back to school), Labor day weekend is really a particularly bad weekend to try to duck out for a con. When I was a kid, it seems like it was more widely the vacation weekend before school starts, but now I’m hearing friends all over the place reporting school starting before labor day (both college and elementary). And even if school doesn’t start until September 3rd, there’s prep you need to do for it. I returned from Worldcon and dropped straight into trying to adjust my preschooler from the crazy non-schedule of staying at Grandma and Grandpa’s to trying to leave for preschool early in the morning. (Her dad having just left for a month of teaching in another state. Luckily preschool is a lot more forgiving than other school.) I’m now willing to go out of my way to avoid having to do that ever again.
September 8, 2013 — 12:34 AM
JR Holmes says:
Many science fiction conventions have started skewing older since the late 70s when they started reacting to the huge influx of (mostly younger) media fans. This was partly in reaction to the huge and very commercial Star Trek (and briefly later Star Wars) conventions and there was a great concern that the science fiction literature fans would be overwhelmed and reduced to a tiny appendage attached to the enormous media presence.
That the media-based conventions were largely commercial operations that were run for profit offended the very populist history of fandom and they made efforts to try to keep the media fans out. The printed fanzines of the era ignored the boom in (again, largely media-based) fan fiction zines that exploded through the 80s and early 90s and cut off a very active group of sympathetic writers and fans who might have been a bridge.
Media fans (let’s face it, at that time mostly Star Trek and Star Wars fans with a small number around a variety of niche TV shows or movies) who compared typical science fiction conventions to the large extravaganzas of the media conventions came away bored and disappointed that none of the “stars” from their media attended. Any media panels that were present were often a “Media vs …” format that tended to contrast against the history of science fiction literature.
I’m disappointed that the Hugos have ignored the YA market as well. As has been remarked elsewhere, the YA market is absolutely thriving and producing some great stories with great insights into science fictional topics that are on the cutting edge. And science fiction has a long history of being written toward a YA audience extending back the the Heinlein and Asimov “juveniles” to the original orientation of the pulp magazines in the 30s.
We need more bridge authors telling stories with the full advantages of today’s media and capturing the imaginations and attention of the young readers/viewers. With the prominence of science fiction topics that are running through society and the media today, we are in a new golden age of science fiction and fantasy and the Hugos should reflect that diversity.
September 3, 2013 — 12:50 PM
Bonnie Johnston says:
WorldCon is a lot more expensive than smaller cons–I live a mere 3-hour drive away from San Antonio, but it would have cost me about $1000 to attend this WorldCon year, and several hundred more if I wanted to bring my husband. This is without paying airfare or taxis/rental car costs. What teenager has that kind of cash lying around?
Compare this to the local ArmadilloCon in Austin, TX–$50 registration, $200-$300 for a hotel room which can be split with another person, and food, which could be 100% taco bell if one so wished. Any teen with a part-time summer job could save up to attend a con that’s within driving distance of their home. I don’t know what the costs are in Atlanta, but I bet DragonCon is also much more affordable for YA readers.
The Hugos should definitely include YA scifi and fantasy. But I don’t think that the lack of Hugo awards is the only reason that WorldCon attracts an older crowd. 🙂
Regards,
Bonnie
September 3, 2013 — 12:55 PM
Texas Triffid Ranch says:
The funny thing about that, Bonnie, is that LoneStarCon and ArmadilloCon are run by many of the same people. Even better, ArmadilloCon used to run in mid-October, on the same weekend as the big University of Texas/Oklahoma University football game. That meant that a lot of UT students could attend if they had no interest in driving up to Dallas for Texas/OU Weekend. These days, it tends to run just before classes start at UT: for a while, it was running the very weekend students were coming back to start classes, meaning they couldn’t get situated in their dorms and attend the convention. Nobody at ArmadilloCon seems to be bothered by this at all, and I’ve stopped bringing up the efforts to make sure that the convention isn’t polluted with new blood. (Well, they’ll welcome the new blood so long as new blood buys the beer for the private party, but otherwise shuts up and doesn’t get delusions of wanting to contribute to the conversation.)
September 3, 2013 — 5:22 PM
ckd says:
I encourage those who can’t make it to Loncon to consider Detcon 1 (the Detroit NASFiC) in July. Memberships are cheaper, travel from North American cities is much cheaper, the hotel will certainly be cheaper…and I have had an amazing time at the various Detroit-area cons I’ve attended over the past several years.
The many younger fans I’ve seen at them seem to be having amazing times too.
IMO, this is what NASFiC is for and should be for: a cheaper, almost “Worldcon-lite”, experience.
September 3, 2013 — 1:23 PM
Vixy says:
To say nothing of the dogpiling that happened when the YA Hugo was suggested. An outright message of “how dare you think you can come in here as a newbie and change things” was flung at the (younger, newer) fan who made the motion. Sometimes explicitly in so many words. There was bullying and abuse and it was awful. The fan in question was so upset as to decide to withdraw the motion just to stop the bullying.
They’re not just failing to represent younger fans. They’re actively excluding them.
September 3, 2013 — 1:31 PM
terribleminds says:
I’m hearing there’s video of that? Need to scare up a link.
September 3, 2013 — 3:11 PM
AnnR says:
I’m sorry, dogpiling? On a proposal that the original proposer tried to withdraw because it was a retread of one that was vigorously debated last year and was eventually voted down?
Where two thirds plus of the attendees raised their hands to approve an object-to-consideration motion? So you don’t agree with a democratic process? You’d prefer to run things on your own?
Please do some research before you just blindly repeat these wild exaggerations..
You may not appreciate Robert’s Rules but they provide an orderly framework for meetings with over a hundred people who all have something to say.
No one has any great objection to a YA award being created. It just doesn’t fit in well with the structure of the Hugos,.
Have you researched some of the objections from last year? If you have not, maybe that should be your first step, before taking aim at something you seem to know little about.
September 4, 2013 — 10:49 PM
UrsulaV says:
My birding buddy Tina was there with me. She’s in her fifties, and hasn’t been to a Worldcon in ten years. Her comment was “Huh. I feel like the youngest person in the room.”
It’s real, and it’s not just you.
September 3, 2013 — 1:49 PM
Carmen says:
Are there any grants available for younger attendees? Or discounted pricing? Kind of hard to afford any cons if you have limited budget. If you are going to go, you probably are going to go to the thing that already has a lot of younger attendees.
I will say that if I choose to attend any of these I’d go to World Con. After everything I’ve read about the Pax founders, I would never give them money. Dragon Con just has never sounded that appealing (even if I completely ignore the entire Kramer issue which is thankfully over). I’d rather go to something that is more devoted to books.
September 3, 2013 — 2:11 PM
Lisa Deutsch Harrigan says:
There was discount pricing for the younger fans (up to 25 and you didn’t need to prove you were a student, it was a pure age pricing), and the military, and the kids.
My 24 year old son kept busy. I hardly saw him at all the entire convention. He was out at panels and gaming mostly.
September 4, 2013 — 2:05 AM
Jim Van Verth says:
One reason I’ve heard for the fee structure is to keep the barrier of entry higher for the Business Meeting and for voting (both mean that more wealthy fans control both the Constitution and who wins the Hugos, which is probably not a debate to hold here). However, from the WSFS Constitution:
1.5.7: Other memberships and fees shall be at the discretion of the Worldcon Committee.
From that, I see no reason why an individual Worldcon couldn’t offer a less expensive non-voting membership, which would allow you to attend the con, but not participate in the Business Meeting or vote on the Hugos — which I’m guessing most of the public would be fine with. The only question is whether an individual Worldcon could draw enough people with this to make up for the lost revenue from lowering prices.
September 3, 2013 — 2:24 PM
Marshall Ryan Maresca says:
Hey, I brought the youngest person who was at Drinks With Authors! That’s got to give a bit of next-generation cred to WorldCon.
September 3, 2013 — 2:51 PM
terribleminds says:
Haha, you did, at that. Tell him he has to bring ten friends next year.
September 3, 2013 — 3:09 PM
Patrick S. Tomlinson says:
There was a moment in one of the panels I attended, (title and name of speaker withheld to protect the guilty) where an older man made mention of something called a “Dean Drive,” then plowed right on assuming his point had been made and understood. Everyone in the audience who had been around to vote for JFK nodded sagely while the rest of us scratched our heads.
Now, while I’ve not read as many of the sci-fi classics as I’d like, the gaps in my knowledge here aren’t gigantic, so I felt no embarrassment when I called out to ask just what the frak a Dean Drive was in the first place. I was met with cool stares or smirks from the older audience members, while the question was ignored by the panel. It wasn’t until another young person with a smartphone (mine had no signal) leaned over and showed me the Wiki page did I learn that it was a reactionless thruster design on par with a perpetual motion device proposed and discredited more than fifty years ago.
I went on to ask several of my friends attending the con, (all sci-fi authors in their thirties like myself) if they knew what a Dean Drive was without looking it up. No one did. It had fallen out of relevance and popular use, even among geeks, long ago.
This one instance is not a condemnation of the convention on its own, but there were many more times through the weekend where I saw similar things happen. When the most relevant examples you can come up with are several generations out-of-date, you’re not helping to make fandom more accessible to new people. You’re clinging to a dying language and culture. WorldCon needs to find ways to appeal to the new wave of fans that has sprung up in the last ten years.
The lack of Middle Grad and Young Adult recognition is just one aspect of this. People are consuming and creating content in new ways that must also be recognized. In five days of programing, there was not a single panel about the revolution in self-publishing, despite the fact many of the people selling in the dealer’s rooms were successful independent authors. Invite them to the table right along with the MG, YA, and NA writers who are already walking around and eager for people to share their experience and expertise with. I know they are, because I’m friends with many of them.
September 3, 2013 — 2:53 PM
Christy King says:
Wrong. There were 3 panels that I went to thy dealt exclusively with self-publishing. And several others that dealt with ebooks.
September 3, 2013 — 3:35 PM
Patrick S. Tomlinson says:
Really? Would you care to name them? Because I have the event book right here and I’m not seeing them. Additionally, my roommate for the weekend is a fairly successful independent author, and it was he who drew my attention to the lack of self-pub programming.
If you’re talking about simple instructionals on eBook conversion as the post below here alludes to, that’s not what I’m talking about.
September 4, 2013 — 12:02 PM
Christopher Robin Negelein says:
On Self-Publishing, there were two panels on how to convert and tweak your ebook, one of which was standing room only. There was another panel or two about epublishing in general, still packed rooms.
The audience still seemed a “mix” of Caucasian gentlemen older than me (I’m 44.) There were a few younger people. I wanted to assume that a lot of mid-list writers are looking to revive their backlog that publishers won’t touch anymore.
The main lessons to learn, btw. Include a .mobi file because Amazon is the 800 lbs gorilla. And the simpler you make your file, the easier it will translate across devices. Try to insist on a particular font or include graphics after the cover page and you take your chances.
September 3, 2013 — 5:02 PM
ATaylor says:
Interesting theories on why GenX might have been noticeably absent.
I am in my 40s and attended WorldCon in Chicago last year with my young-ish family. It was the first time that it was close enough to me (I live in Ontario, Canada) and my family was old enough to drag along with me. My kids (both under 10) enjoyed the kids programming track and what they saw of the convention.
I would definitely take my family again.
September 3, 2013 — 3:13 PM
Christopher Wright says:
I said this on Twitter, but I’m 42 and there’s no way I’m paying $250 for a con ticket. I don’t care if let’s me vote for the President and/or the Pope. Considering how much money I’d have to spend on lodging etc. it’s just not worth my time. If I were in my late teens/early 20s, remembering exactly how much less money I had back then, it would be even more of a non-starter.
Even if the Hugos included some of the categories it’s sorely lacking, or at least included titles in existing categories it appears to be excluding today, I wouldn’t be willing to pony up almost 2/3 of a car payment to get into a con.
September 3, 2013 — 3:17 PM
Pabkins says:
Yes, I agree with everything you are saying. There were so many times when I felt like it was a members only club for those that have read ‘this this and this’. I’m 31 and so no I haven’t read every hard sci fi book over 15 years old. While I loved WorldCon – I found myself gravitating more towards the newer authors. It would be nice if they could find ways to reach out to the middle age and younger demographic.
September 3, 2013 — 3:32 PM
Pabkins says:
Oh and yes…I will also be attending Dragon Con next year! Looking forward to whoooping it up!
September 3, 2013 — 3:34 PM
Gareth Skarka says:
The thing about the Hugos not recognizing YA reminds me strongly of the tabletop games industry’s Origins Awards, which featured a “Best Play-By-Mail Game” category as late as 2011 almost solely due to ONE old guy who produces them being a long-time GAMA fixture.
Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.
September 3, 2013 — 3:37 PM
Madeline Ashby says:
A huge part of fandom is out of touch. On a panel on philosophy and SF, one of my fellow panelists decried the predilection among younger readers for dystopias and “darkness,” then talked about how when he was a young man, he had no trouble finding a job, buying a house, living a life, etc.
“How old are you?” I asked, from the other end of the stage.
He gave his age. I believe it was around 54.
“So you’re a boomer?”
Yes.
“And how much did you pay for your first house?”
It was a figure around $60K. Less than $100K, anyway.
“The average price of a starter home in Toronto, where I live, is $550,000. I’m thirty years old. I have a university degree and two graduate degrees. Despite all that, it is likely I will never be able to afford my own home — or have my own child. You want to know why people my age and younger write without hope? That’s why.”
This man thanked me for bringing that to his attention. He was genuine, not sarcastic. He simply did not know how the younger half lived. And really, I think that’s what it boils down to. It’s more than just an active distrust of young people (and young women in particular). It’s a totally different set of life experiences. And, I suspect, a different set of values. For example, I spent my border policy panel listening to talk of the need for national sovereignty. Sovereignty, for Christ’s sake, as though that meant anything in an era of globalization, supply-side manufacturing, ephemeral debt limits, and algorithmic micro-trading. It’s a view of the world that is frustratingly conservative for a demographic allegedly interested in the future.
I hasten to add that it was the minority view: I spoke with several people afterward (and throughout the con) who thanked me for my candor, and I saw the same young people at all my anime panels (which says something). But, as all weary folk say at one point or another: these people vote.
September 3, 2013 — 5:18 PM
terribleminds says:
Precisely why I think it’d be a good idea to ensure that the community speaks to younger readers, too — to put them in touch with the older generation and vice versa. Each have things to learn from the other.
September 3, 2013 — 9:00 PM
Jeffrey Howe says:
“It’s a view of the world that is frustratingly conservative for a demographic allegedly interested in the future.”
A large chunk of the SF community has never been interested in the future, save as a metaphorical vehicle for explaining what’s wrong with the present. That in itself is morally neutral: the dodge of safely commenting on current issues by pushing them elsewhere or elsewhen goes back to Classical Greece, at least. However, when the future an author presents starts to resemble the past, especially when it’s a past that never really existed, one has entered “get off my lawn” territory.
September 4, 2013 — 10:41 AM
Bryon Quertermous says:
I’ve only been to one science fiction convention so my sample size is limited to be sure, but it felt so much more youthful than any of the mystery conventions I’ve attended. Those things are a riot, but the average age has to be into the 50s, if not 60. I think the RT Bookfest had the best mix of genres, races, and ages I’ve ever seen at a conference and wish more people I know would attend that one.
September 3, 2013 — 5:50 PM
Natalie L. says:
The problem with RT is that it’s crushingly expensive–$500 for a membership for the entire convention. And the panels are often not all that great (I’ve been to three RTs) and the people deciding on the programming–which is decided on EIGHT MONTHS IN ADVANCE–have some odd priorities; a Twitter friend of mine who is a romance author and who is extremely knowledgeable about historic dress proposed a panel on said topic and it was rejected, in part, because it wasn’t sexy enough.
Now: the book fair/mass signing and Teen Day, all of which happen on Saturday and are relatively affordable? AWESOME. There’s nothing awesomer than seeing hundreds of excited teenagers (mostly girls) with giant stacks of books to get signed by their favorite authors. With their dads tagging along.
September 3, 2013 — 6:41 PM
Jo Rhett says:
Your observations are in line with what Worldcon has been trying to do for the last 25 years. Starting with the Cyberpunk movement (~1985) the WASP line of Worldcon management running WSFS have been fighting a delaying action against the youth, women, and people of color who want to come to their conventions.
I have been watching this action non-stop for 25 years, and I am torn between hope and love for the people who continue forward, and grow our community in the face of the WASP SMOF’s constant attacks on them — and despair. For the WASP SMOFs have been completely successful. They have turned away the Cyberpunks, the Anime youth, Comics, the Steampunks and anything foreign to them in a consistent chant of “they aren’t fans”.
Note that except for the Cyberpunks who tried to integrate and failed, each of the remaining groups simply walked away and created their own fandoms which are both more inclusive, and worth more to their publishers and fans than anything Worldcon has ever created. The number of youth who join into scifi fandom every year is usually less than the number who die out of it.
I am sad. I prefer the format of Worldcon and fan-based conventions. I believe that if the WASPs hadn’t been in control, Worldcon would be easily 3-7 times larger. I believe that the *ONLY* thing growing Worldcon at this time is the promotional work being done by John Scalzi, Mary Robinette Kowal, SF Squeecast and their members, and other widely popular people who have done a lot to market the Hugos to a younger audience. But I have lost faith that the current old white male WSFS won’t continue to do their very best to “make all these kids go away.” <- I overheard this in a SMOF party during Worldcon this year.
See the parliamentarian stunts pulled on the Friday WSFS Business Meeting which drove a supporter of the YA Hugo discussion into a stress-based breakdown in the middle of the meeting. She came out of that determined to learn the rules better and throw it back in their teeth next year, for which I applaud her. Nobody, under any circumstances, should be treated in that manner. But their rules allow it, and they appear to have no ethics which would guide them in any other manner.
September 3, 2013 — 6:41 PM
Erica says:
I’ve never been to worldcon or dragoncon. I may attend the worldcon that’s in Spokane, as it’s not too far away from here, I know some SFF folks in the Pacific Northwest, and it looks like it may be the week before the college I teach at usually starts up (though not positive, as the academic calendar for F 2015 isn’t going to be out for a bit) instead of the week after like it so often is. Maybe by then I’ll actually have a story or two published. I’m not young myself, though I’m “young” in my career as a writer. It is a concern if a venue is mostly frequented by older fans and writers. I think it would be a good idea to have a YA category for the Hugos. Children’s category too, or at least a combined kids and YA category. They’re the next generation of readers and writers, and while YA stories do win very occasionally, it’s hardly a level playing field. Juvenile SFF tends to deal with different themes than adult SFF does.
I think Dragoncon attracts a younger crowd because there’s an emphasis on things like gaming as well as fiction and movies/TV. Also, as you mentioned, it’s less expensive. I wonder if lower cost memberships for people who are under a certain age and/or are students might also be helpful? Lower rate memberships for people of any age who want to volunteer a certain number of hours might be helpful too (because younger people aren’t the only ones pinched for cash).
September 3, 2013 — 7:35 PM
tallian says:
This was my first Worldcon, and while I had a great time, I completely agree with the age thing. I’m used to seeing a certain number of older fans, but not such a large percentage. I saw a lot more younger folks at the parties, though my experience may be skewed by the Westeros room party, which was young enough to make me feel old at 40.
September 3, 2013 — 7:47 PM
Abby Goldsmith says:
That room was so crowded.
September 4, 2013 — 3:12 AM
Christopher Robin Negelein says:
Just a quick side comment on WorldCon vs DragonCon’s registration prices.
WorldCon is a volunteer con so while it has a higher price, everything else, autographs, kaffeeklatsches, writer workshops and the such are all free. So if you bought 11 books in the dealers room, you are only out your time to track down 11 authors to sign them.
DragonCon is a for profit con. Sure the registration is cheaper, but then it’s a la carte. If you want 11 signed books, but don’t have the money for the autographs, you’re going to have to make some hard decisions.
And some people are going to prefer one style over the other.
September 3, 2013 — 7:52 PM
terribleminds says:
A reasonable distinction, and worth noting. But signing books isn’t automatically a paid endeavor, right? Like, authors don’t get paid necessarily to provide autographs there.
September 3, 2013 — 9:21 PM
Delilah S. Dawson says:
I’ve been to Dragon Con for the last two years, and I’m pretty sure that you don’t have to pay authors for autographs. Celebrities and photographs/autographs, yes. But not authors. At least, I hope that’s true. I had a signing with Laurell K. Hamilton and saw no money change hands.
And if they do charge for autographs, BITCHES BETTER PAY UP. I only got paid for one autograph! And it was a dollar! Because I forgot to bring change!
September 4, 2013 — 6:27 AM
CD Covington says:
DragonCon has at most 3 paid staff members, including the CEO, for whom running the con is a full time job, and at least several hundred, if not a thousand+, volunteers. Being for profit is a function of how to handle taxes and liability, not a matter of “DragonCon is run by an evil corporation, not by fans.” The CEO is a fan. (Having just looked into the tax rules for conventions for other reasons, I can say that finding a 501(c) category that your convention fits into can be tricky.)
Authors absolutely do not charge for autographs. The only people who charge for autographs and pictures are actors. Depending on the actor, you’ll pay anywhere from $35 to $100+ (Shatner). According to people who know, the actors use money earned at conventions to supplement their income.
I went to ChiCon last year. I went back to DragonCon this year (for the seventh time). I have a lot more fun at DragonCon. The panels are more to my liking (though I only made it to 2 this year), and there’s exponentially more costuming. Like. There are twice as many people in costume at DragonCon than the entire WorldCon population.
September 4, 2013 — 4:45 PM
Rachel Keslensky @ Last Res0rt says:
For serious? I don’t charge to autograph people’s books at a con — heck, that’s part of the incentive to get folks to BUY the things at cons vs. online. It’s only the high muck-a-mucks in the Walk of Fame that do that.
September 4, 2013 — 8:26 PM
Hugh Howey says:
I’ll be at DragonCon next year. I have enjoyed WorldCon the past two years, but I know more of my readers are at PAX or DragonCon, wondering why I’m not.
September 3, 2013 — 9:17 PM
terribleminds says:
This is my feeling (slash worry), as well. At the very least: new part of the country, new segment of the readership.
September 3, 2013 — 9:20 PM
Robert says:
I am 33 and the adult child of congoing Boomer parents (in fact, I was almost certainly conceived at the 1979 NasFic). I usually get along quite well in both the older and younger audiences at cons. My parents went to LSC, their first WorldCon in a decade, and even my mom confessed she would rather have been at Dragon with me. (My dad had a blast)
September 3, 2013 — 9:18 PM
Cynthia Dix says:
I haven’t been to a single DragonCon or WorldCon. I’ve never considered either as a practical way to spend money that I really don’t have. I’m in that middle generation, mid-40’s, more concerned with making a living and paying bills. However, I did go to a convention over Labor Day weekend. We live in Portland, Oregon, within driving distance of Seattle, and have a friend who was able to get us tickets to PAX. A very big deal as those tickets sold out in less than a day! We had a blast! My husband and I were definitely at the older end of the audience. Many of those younger folk do read SF but if you ask them to chose between gaming and WorldCon I think most of them would say “World-what?” There is an energy and excitement to the gaming world that SF/F needs to thrive and move forward.
September 4, 2013 — 12:41 AM
Michele Lee says:
>>Some of the best and bravest storytelling in the genre space is happening right now under our feet in Young Adult fiction.
This. So much this. I run a YA spec fic review site for MonsterLibrarian.com and I am constantly surprised at how profound so many of these books are. And I’m someone who go in hoping a book is going to wow me.
September 4, 2013 — 12:49 AM
Lisa Deutsch Harrigan says:
The timing of the Worldcon. It should be noted that the Worldcon Constitution states that Worldcon is traditionally held over Labor Day Weekend. It has said this for more years than DragonCon has existed. We just had the 71st Worldcon. DragonCon used to be held in the middle of summer. But there got to be a fannish feud and so they deliberately moved to Labor Day Weekend to spite Worldcon.
Who should be moving their con to accommodate the other one?
It is actually harder and more expensive to get most convention facilities in the middle of summer. Many areas that is the height of tourist season and hotels and facilities are booked with other things, like weddings. And hotels make a lot more money off the catering a wedding than they do a fan convention.
Part of the reason for the Labor Day Weekend preference is the facilities are frequently cheaper then.
But it should be noted, that many fans do believe that an earlier start isn’t bad, provided that we don’t have a conflict with catering pushing for the weddings.
You haven’t lived until your dealers room has been cut in half to make way for a wedding that bought its way into the space. Yes, that was a much smaller con than the Worldcon, but it did happen. In the middle of the summer.
September 4, 2013 — 2:19 AM
steve davidson says:
the Orlando in 2015 bid was squarely focused on addressing most, if not all of the concerns mentioned here. I wrote the initial draft of Orlando’s manifesto and put together the outline of its marketing program, which included such things as open dealer’s room, displays and a few other wide-appeal items designed to draw more outsiders/casual visitors to the event AND give a bigger audience to publishers and such – companies whose support is needed to keep Worldcon relevant. Event programming was tracked to so as to demonstrate the historical and fannish ties between many of the things of interest to younger fans are interested in and graying old fandom with the idea of incorporating recruitment as part of the show.
Orlando was obviously roundly rejected (losing the bid in the first round), which I think largely reflects the desires of those who are routinely working on/guiding worldcon.
But I don’t think that dragoncon should be handed the labor day weekend either. You can’t make attendance conflict claims about that date when DC is doing so well on that particular weekend.
Perhaps the solution lies in hosting two conventions in the same city at the same time and working out some kind of membership fee split, allowing attendees to visit both conventions for one fee. GOF can stay where it wants to (and be annoyed by the occasional viewing of much younger fen) and the youngsters can make a brief stop over at the “other” event to see what a bunch of old people who might have some dim connection to what they are interested in look like.
Beyond that though: fan-run conventions can not compete with conventions that are designed to turn a profit and have dollars for promotion. When there was no competition for the egalitarian, fan-run, party for our friends convention, they thrived. Since the advent of commercial/media cons, not so much and decreasingly so. It is sad and unfortunate, but if the fan-run convention is going to survive at all, it is going to have to adopt at least some of the aspects of those commercial cons.
September 4, 2013 — 7:11 AM
Jeb says:
For what it’s worth, I live a little more than an hour from San Antonio and had several friends attending but did not attend myself for a couple of reasons: 1- cost, it was too pricy for an impulse, 2- programming, I hadn’t found that much of interest at the previous Worldcon in SA, 3- timing, I’d been out of town both the preceding weekends, including for GenCon, 4- laziness, I wasn’t interested in driving down for the day and then driving home (plus that would have conflicted with socializing at the con).
September 4, 2013 — 9:36 AM
Paula Lieberman says:
Dragoncon is in the same place run by the same organization year after year. Worldcons move around, and get run by different organizations each year. Dragoncon pays for travel and hotel accommodations and maybe even meals for various of its program participants–Worldcons only pick up the tab for travel, room, and board for Guests of Honor and Special Guests, if any. The other 500+ program participants get their membership reimbursed if the convention has sufficient funds to do so, after the convention pays the bills for:
o the convention center (in six figures, typically),
o the “decorator” contractor supplying essentially of things tending to be like tables and chairs and table covers and moving the rented furniture around for the convention center (the convention rental is for space, -bare- space….),
o power in the convention center
o the equipment for
oo showing video,
oo lighting and sound at the Masquerade and Hugo Ceremonies (se “bare space” above. There may or may not be a stage in the facility spce–the convention might have to rent equipment to make one! There generally is not stage lighting available, or sound equipment, just a Big Empty Giant Room which, with money for chairs and equipment, can be turned into a fascimile of an auditorium)
oo sound in function rooms otherwise — microphones, speakers in the larger rooms, sound board for the room(s) concerts are in
o food and beverage services to the facilities and otherwise, for the consuite (all utensils and equipment also involved in food preparation), the Green Room, the pre-Hugo Reception for the nominees and for press pressent, the Hugo Loser’s Party, the Art Show Reception, etc.
o artshow hangings and transportation for them and lighting (says the woman who helped make several dozen lightpoles for east coast art show hangings sets of equipment for various different groups)
o website hosting, computers and software for creating publications, postage, phone bills, printing costs, paper costs, printers, Internet access fees, etc.
Dragoncon gets 50,000 or so people to split the costs across and I suspect charges a lot more for space to various companies for booths, etc. . Worldcons get 4000 – 6000 or so attendees and does not have corporate booths.
===============================
As regards the YA Hugo. It got tried back in 1989 or so. There weren’t enough nominations of individual books in sufficient quantity per book to get five or even four or three books on a final ballot.
More recently, the arguments include:
a Harry Potter book and Neil Gaiman with a YA novella won Hugos. I seem to recall Ender’s Game, which is marketed as YA these day, wone the Best Novel Hugo. Harpist in the Mist by Patricia McKillip which is YA, was nominated for Best Novel. Parts of Dragonflight by Anne McCaffrey (which book was re-edited and republished as YA) were published as stories in Analog magazine, with one or more of them winning Hugos. Heinlein’s novels which won Hugos, include onces (Double Star, for example) are considered YA novels as regards the hardcover editions being shelved there, for decades.
The argument regarding the above, is that “Best” does not/should not discrimate by market category regarding -age-that a story is targeted to. If there were a separate YA Hugo, that means the work would be ineligible for the no-age-category-restriction Hugo. That is, there would be “best novel that’s YA and best novel that is not YA” which can be seen as bidirectional discrimination! The current situation is that the age catogory is irrelevant. If it’s best, it;s the best, based solely on the objective criterion of the length of the work, as to whether it’s a novel, novella, novelette, or short story.
The “does not discriminate by category of speculative fiction” applies also to there not being Hugos for best timetravel, best paranormal romance, best urban fantasy, best military SF, best heroic fantasy, best historical fantasy, best alternate history, best children’s book, best New Adult novel, best childrens’ picture book, best superhero comic, best dark fantasy, best science fiction romance, best fantasy romance…. All those categories exist in various awards given out by other entities.
The Chesley Awards cover SF/F art, and have lots of categories. The Pegasus Awards cover SF/F community music. The Golden Ducks do YA and children’s speculative fiction literature. The Romance Writers of America and chapters of it, do fantasy and science fiction romance awards. There are online awards that do SF/F, also. Etc. There are lots of special interest groups/focused groups, which give out awards within their communities. One of the strengths of the Hugos is that they have are not Balkanized the way e.g. the Oscars are, with dozens of special interest focus slicings. YA is in that sense, a special interest slicing… why should it be any more or less deserving of Hugo than separate categories for urban fantasy, paranormal romance, etc., would be? There are lots of works in those two categories in YA literature these days. Do you really think that e.g. Twilight deserves a Hugo?!
For that matter, who are qualified voters for the proposed YA Hugo? All those “WASP” dinosaurs (I’ve been to more than a couple dozen Worldcons, but I’m neither male nor Proetestant….) deprecated here, who the implication is don;t like contemporary YA literature, theyre supposed to vote knowledgeably on what is relevant to the highly mutating teenager literary tastes?! (I wonder how long Twilight is going to be a hot property–look what happened with Goosebumps, it went from bestselling series to sales so bad, the publisher almost went out of business, with the change happening in two months! (discussed shortly after it happened at http://www.nielsenhayden.com/makinglight if I recall correctly, by writers including ones whose work includes YA and children’s stories [e.g., Jim MacDonald of the writing team Debra Doyle and James D. Macdonald).
===
As regards “LoneStarCon didn’t have any/enough YA programming!” – -See above, “each Worldcon is run by a different organization.” What there is lots of one year at a Worldcon, there might not be any of the following year, and vice versa. 2003 had lots of LGBTQ programming, 2004 didn’t. This year’s Worldcon was in Texas and the author of Conan was a Texan who was enormous and continuing influence in fantasy literature. ( It’s not exactly surprising that a Texas Worldcon might be focusing heavily on influential speculative fiction writers from Texas).
There being a perceived paucity of YA programming (and/or New Adult, the latest hot marketing category) at this year’s Worldcon, means nothing as regards how much if any YA/childrens’/New Adult programming the 2014 or 2015 or 2016 etc. Worldcons will have.
I expect the 2014 Worlcon being in London, which is in a country in the European Union, I expect the program to feature strongly on British and European writers and literature, and in 2015 I expect the Worldcon in Spokane to have an extremely strong focus on northwestern USA writers and literature (cowboys, SIGH — that is not a positive sigh! No more than 1% of the USA population is involved commercially in agriculture/farming/ranching. I wish that US entertainment would be more representative of OTHER walks of life, and -very- much less of cornfed Iowa farming/cowboys/ranch/farm life! James Tiberius Kirk, drop dead and STAY dead. I have Issues with Bible Belt WASP as iconic….).
I expect there to be a focus on YA/New Adult at the Spokane Worldcon, there was emphasis as I recall at e.g. the Reno Worldcon. A big misconception that the casual observers tend to have, is the assumption that there is consistency in the content of Worldcons–the only set content requirements on Worldcons are the Hugos and Site Selection. Everything else is up to the individual convention/convention committee for what’s on the program, what the events are, how things are run, who’s on the program, etc. There might be expectations/demands for specific types of programming/content, but there is no requirement, and no real enforcement other than voting with feet and wallets….
September 4, 2013 — 10:56 AM
Paula Lieberman says:
PS — some people have mentioned “tickets” . The general feeling at least aong some groups of people who run not-for-profit SF/F conventions, is that “tickets = gateshow” as opposed to memberships” , where:
o Gateshow denotes someone paying money for entertainment and for access to one or more rooms containing merchandisers selling stuff.
o Membership denotes the member being an active participant, getting into conversations and discussion with other people, meeting new people and old friends, socializing, etc.
Also, casual observance tends to not inform one of who at a convention are Hispanic, who have Native American ancestry, who are not other than Protestant, who are LGBTQ… note that the Guests of Honor at Detcon include a triad, two men and ome women who have been committedly together as a triad for many years. Unless knowing this, one wouldn’t know that.
Age -can- be noticeable, but there are people whose ages people tend to mistake by 33% or more. I think I was 33 the last time I got carded by a service worker who through I might be under 21. The same thing can happen in the other direction–15 year olds who look like they’re over 18 or might even be 21. And gray hair is not necessarily a reliable clue, my college roomate had gray hair before she was 18!
Meanwhile, one of the things I;ve noticed is that the age at which people start coming to SF/F conventions has gotten older–that is, they’re more likely to be over 30 than under 20 coming to their first SF/F convention. Someone showing up as a newbie who’s “older” is still new, and should not be considered less desirable as new person simply because they’re not “young.” !
PPS; The YA Hugo prsposal did not show up new at the Business Meeting. It had been coming up, essentially unchanged as a motion, year after year after year after year without any hiatus. People tend to get annoyed when that sort of thing happens.
September 4, 2013 — 11:28 AM
epbush says:
A guide to knowing your cons…
Well, Chuck, I am not surprised that you say Worldcon was an older crowd. DAYUM that was an expensive ticket. I was at Dragon Con this year. It’s young. and much more crowded than it once was. And more costly. (and I sold – two books – from under my raincoat. No place to sell if you don’t plunk down 1K for a space in the dealer’s room).
I liked Balticon because it was an ancient and venerable crowd. AND THEY BUY BOOKS. I never sell so well as at an older con…. younger con goers buy toys and games and booze and costumes (as a whole), Older con goers buy t-shirts and books and autographs (and toys and games and booze). Chattacon, ConNooga – party cons. LibertyCon, RavenCon, ConCarolinas – reader cons. The list goes on and on.
As for the YA Hugos – they do claim The Golden Duck as sort of an addendum. But when you present it at a different con, it rhymes but is not the same.
September 4, 2013 — 12:12 PM
Liz Blocker (@lizblocker) says:
I don’t unfortunately know much at all about DragonCon OR WorldCon (clearly a knowledge gap that I need to fill), but man, some of the best and bravest storytelling, genre or no, EVER has happened in Young Adult fiction. Neil Gaiman’s The Graveyard Book, Burnett’s A Little Princess and The Lost Prince, the entire Earthsea series by Ursula LeGuin, the Narnia books… and so on. I could go on and on, but I’ve felt like the literary world gets snobby about YA, and tends not to count it as ‘real literature’. So it’s discouraging that you’ve found the same feeling in other places, too. YA readers are so important – THAT is the time to grab those new tendrils of interest in reading, and develop and encourage them to grow into a lifelong love.
BTW, can anyone direct me to a basic overview of what DragonCon and WorldCon are? I’m ignorant…
September 4, 2013 — 1:15 PM
urdith says:
I was a first year Dragon*Con attendee and wrote up my thoughts on my blog(s). The short of it is while I loved the side programming and the costumes were great (And the kids were adorable! Love seeing families at cons!), the handling of the main media tracks, line management and other organizational blunders has me putting off returning for a bit.
As for WorldCon, my lady and I were planning to escape to London next year, so we’re going to give it a try there. I’ll be happy to report back if the London WorldCon lives up to its name and is a conference representing the world, or if it’s a bunch of folks imitating the old man from “Attack of the The Eye Creatures.”
“Darn smoochers! Get off my property!”
September 4, 2013 — 1:30 PM
valeriefrankel says:
I’m about 30 and female, but yes, I was there as a “pro” not just a fan. I saw other 30 year old females there, but yes, almost all authors and yes, almost all white. And we sat around the Broad Universe table and griped about how many of us were not put on panels this time. (Certainly, there’s limited space, but there were also many three person panels in the end.) I think many fans would agree this issue is a problem…but welcoming other demographics so they’ll really come is tough to arrange…aside from inviting Neil Gaimen as guest star (worked at World Fantasy San Diego–teens bought every spare membership!). Yes, teen cons like the Harry Potter ones have plenty of panels on minorities, queered characters, young people’s issues, etc. (In 2012 Chicago Worldcon there was a jarring TRACK of panels on how to write the mysterious unknowable characters known as “women.” I was shocked. No one wonders how to write male characters–they’re just “normal”) There are certainly other cons that welcome minorities and/or young people. Wiscon is the famous one, and certainly, lots of teen cons are movie driven. But there are small ones like Readercon or Misti-con (Harry Potter for gen X, basically). I might get in a mention of Wiscon’s new west coast sister Fogcon…maybe we could discuss this issue there.
September 4, 2013 — 3:24 PM