All Your Fanfiction Belong To Us: What The Fuck Is Kindle Worlds?

Amazon is now monetizing fan-fiction.

I mean, I guess?

The press release (with scads more detail) is right here.

I am of two minds on this. Maybe three minds. MAYBE A ZILLION MINDS.

I’m generally pro-fanfic. Like, I know some authors get their browneyes puckered over other people splashing around in their kiddie pools, and I understand that gut-level reaction — but me, I think if you have an audience willing to write fan-fiction about your work, you’re pretty fucking lucky. And it’s always half understood that fan-fiction is fan-fiction. Non-canonical. Utterly apocryphal. Yeah, whatever, sure, Spike and Angel can fly the Serenity through the Stargate and they can fight Darkseid and 69 each other on a bed of glittery vampire dust.

Woo! No problem. High-five.

And this appears to be a way to sanction fan-fiction — it’s not like, Amazon deciding to just allow people to sell it wantonly. It appears to have author (or at least publisher) approval behind it. And authors get paid! I like when authors get paid. Because mouths! To feed!

So, my concern here isn’t actually financial — like, this isn’t theoretically that different from someone licensing your work and your world to, say, the comic book space. Or to an RPG or video game. Or even to film or TV. (Though the percentage here seems likely far less.)

The weird thing is what happens to that comfortable space that separated canonical from non-canonical. Like, one assumes that the fan-fic remains officially non-canonical — and yet, people are paying for it. And getting paid in return. Which lends a kind of intellectual and emotional legitimacy to it. And allows for a very weird thing to happen: it lets the licensed fan-fiction to become, in theory, bigger than the material that spawned it.

And even if it doesn’t become bigger it still grants it a kind of territory in the canonical space. Someone might read Book 3 of the Miriam Black series, The Cormorant, and say, “But this doesn’t refer to that time when she time-traveled back to the Old West in that novella, Booby Nuthatch.” And you’re like, “That wasn’t real, though, someone else wrote that.” But then they say: “I PAID FOR IT SO IT FELT REAL TO ME” and then they sob into your shoulder and you wonder suddenly how they got that close and should you call the police? Probably.

That’s a pretty serious shift in authorship and authenticity.

Which is breaking my brain right now.

How much say does an author get?

How much veto power does Amazon or the publisher get?

Does this place too much power in Amazon’s hands (HAHA TOO LATE)?

Or does this put more power back in the original author’s hands?

Does this further remove legitimacy from unpaid fan-fic?

Do these pantaloons make my thighs look fat?


Like, if I had to make a judgment, I’m 51% this being a good thing, 49% this being a THING I CANNOT WRAP MY HEAD AROUND FUCK IT I DON’T KNOW

*detonates the Internet with the push of a comical red button*

Anyway. Interesting. Say what you want about Amazon, but they’re some crafty-ass trilobites.

What are your thoughts, Oh Goggle-Eyed Readership?


  • If fanfic is now licensed, what does that mean for unlicensed fanfic? Are the property owners going to send their legal departments after et al? Will the wild horses be corralled and sold for dog food, and if they are uncatchable, will they be shot on sight?

    I can’t see people paying for most of the crap that’s out there anyway, but this seems like a net NEGATIVE for the average fanfic author.

    • This. So Amazon now publishes fic for Gossip Girl, Pretty Little Liars and The Vampire Diaries. What does that mean for the fics written for those fandoms over on And that’s over 30,000 fanfics for the three combined, btw. Will Amazon’s army of lawyers send out C&D’s to eradicate all that (free) competition to its product? I don’t like this development. Not one bit.

  • My assumption is that there is some kind of editorial process involved? You can call it Fan Fiction but aren’t they really just developing writers of Media Tie-Ins? That’s what it seems like to me. If they have a herder who can corral all the works, then more power to them. If not… then I’m not interested.

    • ^^This. At least with licensed, work-for-hire media tie-ins, the author gets paid a standard flat fee and gets to sometimes put “NYT bestselling author” (via their WFH for Uncle George or whomever) on the taglines of their other, original, way-underexposed works. Part of me sees this as a way to get cheap, “crowd”-sourced media tie-in fodder while going around WGA. The rights wording seems to suggest that if, f’r’ex, your cool time-travel alt-universe from “Booby Nuthatch” sparks enough interest in the fandom, then Chuck can then cash in the check for optioning the movie rights for Miriam Black’s boobalicious adventure through time, use all your cool time-travel worldbuilding and ideas, and you, dear Chuck-ficcer, get nothing further beyond the few bucks originally shoved up yer Booby Nuthatch.

      Which, honestly, because it’s Chuck, it’s kind of okay. We all know if we show up at his house, he’ll make us pancakes and give us beer. But those Gossip Girl people? Ehh, I bet there’s nothing but an old jar of pickles in their fridge.

  • I’ve been known to write some fan-fic. (DarthAmmonite, if anybody’s curious.) And I also am a moderately successful traditional author, so anybody who wants to start the whole “Why not put that energy into your OWN ORIGINAL STUFF!?!?” concern-trolling can fuck right off, thank you—fan-fic is a thing I write because it is FUN. I write a great deal of my own original stuff, and while I love what I do, it is hard work. Fan-fic put a lot of the deranged joy and whimsy back into writing at times when I was paralyzed by the fact that my ability to produce marketable work was the only thing standing between me and the poverty line.

    Once you monetize that, it becomes a job, not a hobby. The glorious feeling that you can have fun because it doesn’t MATTER goes away, because now it does matter. And I’ve monetized too damn many hobbies in my day.

    Other people may feel differently. They are welcome to it. This Amazon thing may work great for them!

    I’m struck by the number of people who really do write fan fic, though, who are not so keen on this notion….

  • Honestly, I’d welcome anything that breaks the strange, stranglehold notion of “canon.”

    Once upon a time a storytellers took any character or plot and re-shaped it to his interests. They mined new meaning by digging into the nooks and crannies of the tales to express ideas that contrasted to tellings that had come before, or found the bit they loved and re-worked into something new.

    Is there a “correct” version of the Greek myths? A canonical telling of King Arthur?

    Why not embrace the same playfulness with stories created today? After all, there is NO reality of the stories out there that is sacred — just one telling or another telling in one specific medium or another.

    What matters is the *telling* — one story or another. If it engages the audience, great. If not, it goes by te wayside.

    What one AUTHOR does with the world and characters is what will define what the world is for that author and for the audience that enjoys the telling of tales the author tells.

    That’s my take, at least.

    • May 22, 2013 at 3:20 PM // Reply

      Can I worship at your feet for a bit, please? As someone who enjoys oral storytelling, and seeing a single story told in many different mediums & styles, I get so frustrated when people equate something being written down with it being carved in stone forever more. Sure, sometimes canon has a place, if you’re trying to adhere to a specific vision- but we strangle ourselves creatively and duct tape our imaginations if we think there’s only one True Way for a story to be told.

    • This is my gut reaction, too.

      It’s been done many times over with various classics (deceased authors with works old enough to be legally up for grabs). Off the top of my head:

      Hamlet gave way to “Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead” – in screenplay form by Tom Stoppard. Likewise with Romeo & Juliet in Shakespeare in Love…

      Pride and Prejudice and Zombies – book and screenplay.

      These new works pay homage, poke fun at classics.

      Why not look at fanfic as a sign that a work is an instant classic – to someone? Or at least a promotion of the original on which it is based?

  • May 22, 2013 at 12:24 PM // Reply

    I don’t see much difference between this and selling the movie rights to your book. Basically, you’re giving someone else the right to re-imagine your original idea, (and possibly eff it up beyond all recognition) for money. So…I have the same feelings about the two. If you can’t handle someone else putting their dirty paws all over your babies, don’t sell/license the rights. The end.

  • I’m wondering when you’re going to license the Mirriam Black’s world to Amazon so I can get on that Wild West time-travel piece I’ve been dreaming about.

  • My gut is all hands-on-the-dash and screaming about this thing. It sounds like a blatant reaction to the success of 50 Shades (aka Twilight with the serial numbers filed off) mixed with every scheme that preys on noob writers who just want “an in”. This development is great for the bottom line of businesses like Alloy and Amazon (and any other companies that decide to jump on in), but it sucks for the writers involved. Yes, right now, the Alloy properties are ghost-written/work-for-hire etc, but what if Tor or Random House gets on the bus with this? Will authors have to start competing against their own non-canon fanfic? (Twilight and 50 Shades excluded because dude…) What about self-published material and Amazon’s reach there? Will Amazon basically become a sweat shop with aspiring writers lining up to be exploited?

    This makes me squeamish on the surface and the deeper I dig, the more I wonder what comes next and what precedents this will set for the future.

  • “Spike and Angel can fly the Serenity through the Stargate and they can fight Darkseid and 69 each other on a bed of glittery vampire dust.”

    Has someone written this? If yes, please send it to me IMMEDIATELY.

  • This makes my head hurt thinking about it. I mean, I like the idea… and obviously there’s a market for it. But I just don’t even know what to think about what this means for the future. Cool things maybe? Or it could be bad. Very bad. I’ve seen some of the depths of what fanfiction has to offer and I’m not sure that’s fit for commercial consumption. Or any consumption really. Ever.

  • Amazon? NOT a good thing. And the repercussions from this kind of wanting to get their fingers into everyone’s cookie jar can NOT wind up being a good thing for authors. Scary.

  • Awesome post. Awesome comments. Mind-exploding move on Amazon’s part.

    A small addition to all the other ideas here: as a writer and a fanfic fan (fanficfan?), I’m having a bizarre internal conflict about this. The writer-self feels vaguely horrified and slightly nauseated, as one comment-er said, and the fan-self is indulging in a big belly laugh. However…I think the fan has the winning hand, here. I have a feeling that the reason my writer-self feels a little horrified is that I’m laboring under the delusion that I have any kind of control over my creations.

    Really, the only control I have is financial. I get paid (hopefully) for what I create, and I can stop others from riding on my coattails and getting paid for the same thing.

    What I do NOT, and hopefully never will, have control over is what a person thinks or imagines about what I create. Whether that is in the privacy of someone’s mind, or posted all over the interwebs for others to read, I have zero say in what someone else imagines – until someone builds an Ursula LeGuin-esque machine that controls thoughts and dreams, that is (and please don’t build that. EVER. Thanks.)

    Kindle Worlds doesn’t change any of that.

    I can still prevent people from getting paid by not licensing my stuff, and I still can’t stop them from turning one of my beloved characters into a space-going-alien-fighting-sex-starved dominatrix. Or whatever. That is, if I’m lucky enough (as Chuck said) to create something so popular that people actually want to write fanfic about it.

    I wonder if what this will do is change the terms of what makes something canon. If money is no longer the legitimizing factor, will is just be the author’s name? In other words, if the original author writes it, it’s canon. Period. That would actually be a really good thing, I think.

    Oh yeah, and if Amazon isn’t allowing smut, this might be a non-starter.

    Finally, what’s the word on how the licensing actually works? IS it really entirely up to the author, or can the author be overridden by publishers, etc?

  • I have a couple of not necessarily related thoughts:

    1) Having a cloud of non-canonical works mixed with canonical works has been done before, successfully. Anyone else remember reading all the Star Trek novels? As much as we *wanted* John M. Ford’s vision of the Klingons to be The One True Klingon, we all knew that wasn’t going to be the case. And yet, it didn’t keep us from liking the book *or* the shows or the next generations of tie-in novels that based off of the new normal.

    2) I’m not convinced *authors* are getting the payments here, given the deal is between Amazon and Alloy, yes? This really feels like it’s a way to let media companies muck around in the grey area between tie-ins and fanfic and generate additional revenue with little up-front cost or risk.

  • I can see a savvy author stating that a fan could write fan-fiction *within* their world, but not use any major characters (example: Jim Butcher gives the okay on me writing a piece about what’s going on in New York City within his “Dresden Files” universe, as opposed to the series’ main location of Chicago, etc.). A sort Lovecraft-style circle of authors could eventually form organically, expanding the depth and breadth of the setting in more ways than one person banging their head against a keyboard all on their lonesome could, *plus* if the fanfic writer is good, it might be a good way for a new author to get their foot in the door by writing in an established universe.

    • Exactly that. If the author get a say and it’s not just up to the publishing company they’re with. This may make having an agent even more valuable in the near future. I can see letting people play in the world I created, but my characters are mine. They’re part of MY story arc. And I may not want them involved in some sort of crazy orgy in the sand wastes of Pronus while they’re supposed to be in the middle of saving the kingdom of Alzor. Use my setting. Use your OWN characters for that orgy, thanks. I think if the author gets to decide, then that will be just fine. But I fear that’s not going to be the case.

      And I’ve noticed others mentioning the pay to those selling the rights. Well…that will be the publisher. I’ll be surprised if the author even gets asked or sees any royalties from it.

      I mentioned earlier, I also hope the author is asked what can and cannot be published. I can see sales hurt because someone picked up some porn fan-fic and believes that all other works in that setting will be the same. I write romance by another name, which is a non-issue, but I will also be writing YA stuff and adult works with no lurid sex. I might not want some of the things I’ve seen out there in those settings at all because it may be associated with my work by anyone who may pick up a fan-fic work and think that everything in that setting is the same way.

      I could be just paranoid, but then again, sometimes they really are out to get you. ;)

      • “I could be just paranoid, but then again, sometimes they really are out to get you.”

        Some call it paranoia, others call it taking into account all the possibilities. As I said: I think a savvy author could use this to not only expand the scope of their own brand, but also help budding authors get a foot in the door and get their names known.

        Personally, if I were the primary author in such a situation, I’d be more than happy to give worldbuilding secrets, etc., not intimately tied to the narrative arc of the series that I’m working on within that setting. *Maybe* if the fanfic author shows that their worthy of the trust and they have the skill, giving some foreshadow-y stuff for them to slip into their works. But, yeah: the scenario sounds like it’s a room full of eggshells, and egos and naivete will have to be left at the door if the endeavor will be anywhere close to “successful”.

        • Heck, Thieves’ World sort of started as just a bunch of writers getting together in a common world setting and writing their own characters with specific ground rules about using the characters of the other authors. If it ends up being like that, I’m all for it. My biggest concern is that the author will get little to no say in what the publisher allows. And little to no royalties on their IP.

          • True. So, something like this might be good with an established author who’s self-published the particular IP or an up-and-coming self-publisher who has an interested fan-base.

          • Yeah. I think this sort of platform would be tailor made for something like that. And it would be something I’d definitely get behind. A number of people writing in an established setting, all getting a cut for their contributions to the world as a whole… I’m sensing a disturbance in the Force. Or at least a possible experiment with this platform in the unforeseen future…

  • I don’t follow the “I paid money for it, there for it’s canon” logic I doubt most readers would but that may be because I’ve read far too manly official AU manga and comic books for that, some stories just aren’t going to co-exist even if they use the same characters, settings and devices.

  • I’ve been reading and writing fanfiction for years and let me just say, the fact they will not allow smut is the condemning factor here. By not allowing smut, they are almost guaranteeing the failure of this concept.

    Also, I believe it would be important to notice that if authors are being paid to write it, people will be paying for the story (duh!) However, why would anyone go and pay for a story they can read for free? I know very few authors who post their work on one site and one site alone. We have an open marriage with our forums (or we’re just forum whores, however you’d like to put it). This idea of providing a place for authors to be paid for their work is all well and good, but who’s going to buy it?

    I can’t see this being a successful idea for Amazon or anyone else. In fanfiction, we’re all but famous for our porn. Our free porn. When 50 Shades came out, the rest of the world was astonished that such material would be published. The fandoms just scoffed that people would pay for it.

    • lol truth :) But I’d not write them off just yet – they may still allow titillation, and that can keep people going a while.

      Heh, I said ‘tit’.

    • There’s more to fanfic than smut and porn. I’d gladly pay for fanfic through Kindle Worlds based on settings, television shows, etc. that read and felt like another episode or chapter of that intellectual property. For instance, Star Trek, Star Wars, that doesn’t involve smut that’s beyond the level the IP normally provides its customers.

      • Thanks for the link! I did delve a little more into the legality issues. It’s still murky, though. Especially this: “We will allow Kindle Worlds authors to build on each other’s ideas and elements. We will also give the World Licensor a license to use your new elements and incorporate them into other works without further compensation to you.”


        • There’s nothing sinister or murky about it. That’s a standard for doing fiction in a licensed setting. Absolutely normal.

          As I put it in another comment: “You play in somebody else’s sandbox, they get to use the castle you built.”

        • “Especially this: “We will allow Kindle Worlds authors to build on each other’s ideas and elements. We will also give the World Licensor a license to use your new elements and incorporate them into other works without further compensation to you.”


          YEAH! That no further compensation? Sure doesn’t sound like they plan on taking care of writers now does it?

  • I’m trying to understand this from inside the fanfic community, of which I’m not longer a member, but still — why would you pay for fanfiction if you can and do get it for free? So this new development is definitely riding the coattails of 50 Shades, and potentially could be used to shut down regular, free fanfiction (which some people have wanted to do for a long time). I have no problems with authors licensing their work, but it all seems very bottom line cynical and pulp.

  • May 22, 2013 at 4:44 PM // Reply

    I don’t know if this will ever extend beyond these manufactured properties. It’s really just another way to monetise something that was always about money before creativity anyway.

  • Regarding canon:

    I prefer continuity, because it affords the option to include retroactive or alternate continuity streams within the same property and not get anyone upset. See: Marvel’s Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate X-Men, etc. Or: DC’s Elseworlds one-shots. Describe fan-fic as alt-continuity and you extend it legitimacy within the property while maintaining the mainstream continuity for those who are sticklers.

    Lampshaded, by the way, by JJ Abrams for his Trek movies, because they are entirely retroactive continuity stories set in the exact same property.

  • Also, this — not specific to Amazon, but to the issues of sharing worlds and characters as a notion.

    We’re raised these days to be knee-jerk protective of ideas. (The legal system in place demands it, I understand.)

    But here’s an interesting article that suggests that Lovecraft and his work are still remembered because, in part, he was “the first author to create an open-source fictional universe.”

    I think there are some notions in the article worth considering here:

  • On the one hand, the idea intrigues me because I am an avid fanfiction reader/writer and I have a teeny tiny following on and it would be kinda cool if I could get paid for all my dorky fanfics.

    However, this raises a troubling new batch of questions.
    1) Does this mean will start having changes? I.e. forcing us to pay to read fics? Making us get permission from the original author rather than just having a disclaimer? It’s not uncommon that if this thing gets big, they’ll want a piece of the pie too in order to not get run out of the business.
    2) Why would people actually pay for fics that are non-canonical when they can just read them elsewhere for free? I mean, about 80% of all fanfiction is absolute shit. I would NEVER pay for it and that’s what makes it so worthwhile when you finally track down a fic that is well written and in character and you love it. It creates the problem that we deal with when we buy books online and wait to get them–if the book sucks and we paid for it, we get angry. If it’s free, hey, no skin off our backs. That’s one of the pitfalls of the digital age, if you ask me. In a bookstore, you’re usually free to read a good 1-10 chapters of something, realize if you like it or not, and then purchase it. You’re saving money and ensuring the quality of what you buy. That’s not so with e-books. Sure, you get a preview, but there’s no telling if you’re gonna like it as a whole or not and not all books have previews.
    3) Does paid fanfiction diminish free fanfiction? Does it raise the standards of the average fanfic? Because fanfiction is so huge because anyone can open a blank Microsoft Word document and poop all over it and post it. Granted, technically, you can do the same thing with self-published novels and books, but there are length limits that usually get rid of the truly lazy folks who don’t care what they put out. Fanfiction has a lot more freedom and less rules so trying to make a profit off of it makes me uncomfortable, initially anyway.

    Those are just my rambling thoughts on the matter. I’ll just keep an eye on this thing and see where it leads. Because, seriously, if I could get paid for my fics, I’d be a happy gal. Mama’s got bills to pay, y’all.

  • Wow. And the Internet exploded.
    Okay, look, if you want to tear your hair out over the deplorable state of things for authors, that boat sailed some time ago. IIRC, freelance/work-for-hire rates are about where they were in Lovecraft’s day, NOT adjusted for inflation. Self-publishing and trad publishing both have serious perils for the writer and plentiful opportunities to end up royally borked, particularly if you’re not already a bestseller. And our models for taking advantage of the wide-distribution/easy-piracy tradeoff of the Internet still need some debugging, to put it kindly.
    Fan fiction, whether you love it or hate it or write it or refuse to admit you’ve heard of it, is a fact of life. You may as well bring suit against the law of gravity. When you put a work out there, if it doesn’t suck (and, amazingly, sometimes even if it DOES suck), readers are going to engage with it emotionally and imaginatively. That’s what you WANT. Some of them will find your creation a playground for their creativity. (Personally, my benchmark for success as an author is ‘the day I find people making pr0n of my characters doing things my innocent ganglia cannot conceive.’ ;-) You cannot control what people will do in their heads with your work; you can’t control what they write on paper or type into a computer. They will do these things, because what you created has taken on a life of its own, independent of you. Woot. As long as other people aren’t impeding your ability to make money off your work, or misrepresenting whose work is whose (which is what copyright exists to prevent), I don’t see a problem.
    Can sanctioned, paid fanfiction work? In *theory* I don’t see why not. Authors have put their settings out for licensed shared-world work before. They set the terms. Licensees comply. Everybody gets their cut. Doujinshi (semi-sanctioned) are a huge thing in Japan, and don’t appear to have killed manga. As a rule, I think readers are capable of noting the name on the front of the book and figuring out whether it’s the original author or not, particularly if fanfic is under a separate imprint that marks it as ‘non-canonical’ (for whatever that’s worth). This is going to be super duper true of the main market for fanfic, I’d think.
    However, it’s also totally possible that this will wind up being effed up on one or more axes, and go FOOM. I’m sort of grateful to these properties and Amazon for being willing to serve as guinea pigs (mine canaries?) for the rest of us.
    Anyway, I’ll wait to tear my hair out till I hear that something bad’s actually happened to someone, because if I didn’t, I’d have gone bald years ago.

  • From the blurbs and press release etc it seems that amazon won’t be editing, just saying yay or nay…if this is true, this is all kinds of horrible waiting to happen. If they will set aside manpower to properly edit, it might be better.

    But there will likely be legal issues, and anyone hopping on this oh-so shiny and faintly smelly train should read liability parts of the contract reeeeeeeally closely!

    Be afraid. Be very afraid…

  • Whoa, whoa, whoa! What a massive freak-out. Let’s take it down to the speed limit here.

    Kindle Worlds is not going to be a free-for-all; writers won’t be self-publishing the same kind of stuff you see on They might try, but they’ll fail. Or maybe they will succeed, as long as what they write is properly vetted, and it conforms with Amazon’s stringent guidelines. And hey, good luck with that, happy fanfic writers. It’s going to be much harder than they think.

    This really isn’t “fanfic” anyway; the books Kindle Worlds will curate are *derivative* works, and it takes a legal and logical mind to spot the differences between the two. Amazon just signed up for one big massive headache.

  • The content guidelines for the Kindle Worlds make for interesting reading.

    ‘Content Guidelines for Kindle Worlds
    Pornography: We don’t accept pornography or offensive depictions of graphic sexual acts.
    Offensive Content: We don’t accept offensive content, including but not limited to racial slurs, excessively graphic or violent material, or excessive use of foul language.
    Illegal and Infringing Content: We take violations of laws and proprietary rights very seriously. It is the authors’ responsibility to ensure that their content doesn’t violate laws or copyright, trademark, privacy, publicity, or other rights.
    Poor Customer Experience: We don’t accept books that provide a poor customer experience. Examples include poorly formatted books and books with misleading titles, cover art, or product descriptions. We reserve the right to determine whether content provides a poor customer experience.
    Excessive Use of Brands: We don’t accept the excessive use of brand names or the inclusion of brand names for paid advertising or promotion.
    Crossover: No crossovers from other Worlds are permitted, meaning your work may not include elements of any copyright-protected book, movie, or other property outside of the elements of this World.’

    Re: poor customer experience, does this mean they will determine this BEFORE publication or after, if the story gets poor reviews? The wording seems to imply this ‘process’ takes place before publication. Who is the ‘WE’? Editors contracted by Amazon? Authors who own the Worlds? Their agents? Their publishers?

    If they’ll put a story AFTER publication, what are the criteria? Total number of reviews, max number of negative reviews, min number of 3 star reviews and above?

    Re: Excessive Use of Brands, what’s excessive? So, you’re allowed to mention it, like, once on your blog/facebook/twitter/insert social-media-platform-of-interest but probably not put a billboard sign above your house proclaiming your achievement to all and sundry?

    And re: Crossover, it sure looks like Spike and Angel won’t be going anywhere fast with the Serenity man!

    Like daylight2nite says, only time will tell how this one pans out…

  • I’m not sure what the benefit is here.

    There’s already a thriving fanfic community out there. Is there something wrong with it? Is it not working? That is: what’s the problem this move is trying to solve?

    The answer, the cynical part of me thinks, is that the current model does not allow Big Corp to monetise this. That is, all the people doing Good Works ™ on fanfic are doing it for the love, but Warner (or whomever) aren’t seeing a red cent from that. I suspect they’re pissed off at that, and came up with this great idea to get more coins for no work.


    I guess I’m negative because I see no real benefits except to the corporate IP holder, and some possible negatives (e.g., what happens if Warner or Amazon lawyer up against “independent” fanfic sites?). It really is a solution for a problem that doesn’t exist.

  • HA. This? Is really just a non-starter of an idea. First – fanfic is free already, and i won’t be paying for it. Plus – those are pretty small fandoms, there’s not going to be much traffic, especially when they don’t ‘allow’ crossovers and fusions.

    Second – fanfic *isn’t* actually legal. It’s a huge grey area, particularly if you try to make money off it.

    Third – they own what I write forever and ever? And might mine my original characters, etc., for ideas and never give me any credit? Hell no.

    Last – but not least – fanfic without porn is…well. It exists – there’s gen fic out there. But it’s a small niche, not a popular ‘thing’.

    I don’t see this going anywhere, to be honest.

  • I’m still considering the implications from this.
    In the fanfic world, stealing others’ stories to repost under a different title on or other sites is a regular issue. How will Amazon know that the submitted fic was written by the person sending it? I can see a bunch of unscrupulous readers merrily copying and pasting.

  • WTF??

    I remember spending my teenage years writing fan fic at and

    Are you telling us those days are over? :'(

  • Personally, I don’t get all the rage-boners that have sprung up all over the Internet over this news.

    If DC hired you to write a Batman story, you would write that story under a work-for-hire agreement. That means you would not hold onto the publication rights. Instead, DC would get those rights. And if you created a new villain named the Gerbil for Batman to fight, you would no longer own the rights to the Gerbil and you would not be entitled to royalties from other stories featuring the Gerbil that you didn’t write. Now, you can argue that the traditional work-for-hire system is unfair to writers, but that’s a larger issue that goes beyond Kindle Worlds. They’re basically playing with the same rules that have already been established.

    So far, this seems pretty standard to me. 35% royalty is not that bad. If you write an original book and publish it on Kindle, you get 70% royalties on your original work but only if it’s priced in a certain range. So if you wanted to give your book away for $0.99, Amazon would only give you 35% royalties. And in some markets, you only get 35% unless you publish the book through KDP Select and make it Kindle exclusive (I know that’s the case with India, for example).

    The main difference here seems to be there’s no advance payment.

    But I don’t think this is going to spell the death of free fanfic. For one, not every rights-holder is going to want to sign up for this. Second, Amazon isn’t setting up their own version of where anyone can create an account and get their stuff published instantly. It does look like there’s going to be some sort of review process for submitted material before it’s published. Third, if they did start rounding up fanfiction writers who didn’t participate, it’d be a public relations nightmare. Not to mention a logistical one. Copyright holders have enough trouble dealing with piracy, adding fanfic into that category would make it impossible. Free fanfic isn’t going anywhere, and maybe this could give some unknown authors a chance to gain more recognition.

  • This is something of a tangent, but: I think fanfic, as mutated and accelerated by the internetz, is becoming a potent force in some weird ways, similar to how the ability of anyone to remix anything is affecting the music industry. I am currently working on a piece for an upcoming compilation, the spec of which is essentially “write fanfic that doesn’t suck, because 50 Shades ruined it for everyone and we’re taking it back.” Which is odd for me, as I think I may be the only budding scifi writer online who has never written fanfic up to now, but regardless, the fact that someone felt that point needed to be proven indicates _something_ about what I am tempted to describe as an increasing relevance of fanfic.

  • This may be a little late coming to the party but copyright infringement has already started to occur in regards to this. Close to the same time the Amazon announcement was made, some “author” decided to post for sale, a fanfiction of a Harry Potter book (cost is $2.99 and it is labeled as a Harry Potter fanfiction). I perused the free sample chapter and with mentions of Hogwarts and Harry Potter, it is clearly guilty of intellectual property stealing and copyright infringement.

    What happens when the idea gets out and there are other nimrods that jump on the bandwagon and decide if one person got away with it, they can too? Fanfiction anarchy and a lot of salivating intellectual property attorneys? Perhaps. A crackdown on all self-publishing to try to prevent future infractions? It’s certainly something that crossed my mind. What JK Rowling decides to do, should she find out, will set a precedence on how future cases of this are handled. She already has a reputation for being litigious.

    My concern would be over the young upstarts that follow in this wake that think it’s okay to do because somebody is already getting away wit it. “I didn’t know any better” and “Why are you picking on me, I’m not the only one that did it” are not valid legal defenses. I have a feeling that there is more to come with this and more and more illegal fanfictions will be posted for sale on Amazon because some writers will think that just because it has been sanctioned for some works, it means that it is legal for all.

  • I’m glad to know you’re not against fanfiction, Chuck :} I don’t understand some writers’ aversion to it. Honestly, whenever I see a writer being clingy to their characters, all I can think of is “my precioussssss”, which is not very flattering. But I digress.

    As a (unpublished) writer and as a fanfiction writer, I’m more concerned about Amazon’s legal terms on the Kindle Worlds than people confusing canon and fandom. Do people actually confuse the two? There are a lot of canon/non-canon things out there and people still seem to have a pretty good grasp on it. Well, regardless, KW is not really something I’d try out, but at least I hope it works, for the sake of everyone.

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