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	<title>Comments on: Punish Your Characters, Not The Audience</title>
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	<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/07/22/punish-your-characters-not-the-audience/</link>
	<description>Chuck Wendig: Freelance Penmonkey</description>
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		<title>By: KD</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/07/22/punish-your-characters-not-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-14316</link>
		<dc:creator>KD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jul 2010 22:28:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=5284#comment-14316</guid>
		<description>...that&#039;s why I hang out on writer&#039;s blogs. Because sometimes you just have to hear it a different way. Thank you, Keith!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;that&#8217;s why I hang out on writer&#8217;s blogs. Because sometimes you just have to hear it a different way. Thank you, Keith!</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/07/22/punish-your-characters-not-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-14229</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=5284#comment-14229</guid>
		<description>@KD: You can kick a helpless 15 year old as much as he or she needs to be kicked to become the hero (villain or schmuck) that your book--and your readers--needs he or she to be. Maybe think of it like weight training. You work your MC till he&#039;s sore, and then a little more. Then you let he and the reader rest with some kind of small reward, but use that rest or reward to bring tension or conflict which will propel you to more crisis. See Chuck&#039;s earlier post on raising the stakes in your writing. http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/07/19/what-are-the-stakes/

Last bit: Writing can be a way of facing your stuff, too. If you avoid conflict in your life then try writing it in your books. Create it, help your character face it, then look back on the growth it provided. Maybe you&#039;ll face more outside writing, too.

K</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@KD: You can kick a helpless 15 year old as much as he or she needs to be kicked to become the hero (villain or schmuck) that your book&#8211;and your readers&#8211;needs he or she to be. Maybe think of it like weight training. You work your MC till he&#8217;s sore, and then a little more. Then you let he and the reader rest with some kind of small reward, but use that rest or reward to bring tension or conflict which will propel you to more crisis. See Chuck&#8217;s earlier post on raising the stakes in your writing. <a href="http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/07/19/what-are-the-stakes/" rel="nofollow">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/07/19/what-are-the-stakes/</a></p>
<p>Last bit: Writing can be a way of facing your stuff, too. If you avoid conflict in your life then try writing it in your books. Create it, help your character face it, then look back on the growth it provided. Maybe you&#8217;ll face more outside writing, too.</p>
<p>K</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: KD</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/07/22/punish-your-characters-not-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-14215</link>
		<dc:creator>KD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=5284#comment-14215</guid>
		<description>This. This is right where I am. My MC is 15 and scared silly, doesn&#039;t have a clue what&#039;s going on. Right now his idea of being proactive is seducing someone so they&#039;ll want to take care of him. &lt;i&gt;He&lt;/i&gt; sees nothing unusual in being terrified and nearly powerless, but I keep wondering--how much can the reader take? Will they stick with me until I&#039;ve built him up enough he&#039;ll start taking control?

I have a habit of avoiding the really bad--I might build up for a whole book and then duck out on the crisis because in life I&#039;m a conflict-avoider, and I&#039;ve been working on that in life and writing both, but this book makes it hard. How much can I kick a helpless 15yo?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This. This is right where I am. My MC is 15 and scared silly, doesn&#8217;t have a clue what&#8217;s going on. Right now his idea of being proactive is seducing someone so they&#8217;ll want to take care of him. <i>He</i> sees nothing unusual in being terrified and nearly powerless, but I keep wondering&#8211;how much can the reader take? Will they stick with me until I&#8217;ve built him up enough he&#8217;ll start taking control?</p>
<p>I have a habit of avoiding the really bad&#8211;I might build up for a whole book and then duck out on the crisis because in life I&#8217;m a conflict-avoider, and I&#8217;ve been working on that in life and writing both, but this book makes it hard. How much can I kick a helpless 15yo?</p>
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		<title>By: Tome Wilson</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/07/22/punish-your-characters-not-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-14214</link>
		<dc:creator>Tome Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=5284#comment-14214</guid>
		<description>Everyone wants the protagonist to &quot;win.&quot;

If he wins, but the victory is hollow, then it doesn&#039;t really count as a win, does it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone wants the protagonist to &#8220;win.&#8221;</p>
<p>If he wins, but the victory is hollow, then it doesn&#8217;t really count as a win, does it?</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/07/22/punish-your-characters-not-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-14210</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 18:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=5284#comment-14210</guid>
		<description>Hobb&#039;s Dragon Keeper/Dragon Haven? One book made two by the publisher. Reading it now, just done the first one. It&#039;s a tasty epilogue to the lingering questions of the Liveships, Fool&#039;s and Assassin&#039;s series. Guest spots by some Liveship favorites.

I think you&#039;d like it. So far it&#039;s a little lighter than the other books, but it&#039;s just as engaging.

K</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hobb&#8217;s Dragon Keeper/Dragon Haven? One book made two by the publisher. Reading it now, just done the first one. It&#8217;s a tasty epilogue to the lingering questions of the Liveships, Fool&#8217;s and Assassin&#8217;s series. Guest spots by some Liveship favorites.</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;d like it. So far it&#8217;s a little lighter than the other books, but it&#8217;s just as engaging.</p>
<p>K</p>
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		<title>By: Becoming The Hero :Blue Ink Alchemy</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/07/22/punish-your-characters-not-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-14206</link>
		<dc:creator>Becoming The Hero :Blue Ink Alchemy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=5284#comment-14206</guid>
		<description>[...] mentioned John McClain which got me thinking on the subject. There&#8217;s nothing obviously heroic about John. He&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] mentioned John McClain which got me thinking on the subject. There&#8217;s nothing obviously heroic about John. He&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/07/22/punish-your-characters-not-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-14205</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=5284#comment-14205</guid>
		<description>A good example: The death of Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars.  It&#039;s a necessary part of Luke&#039;s journey to heroism, something that helps him grow and realize his potential.  It hurts him, yes, but he becomes a better character for it.

A bad example: Trinity in Matrix: Revolutions.  Neo was already the Cyber-Messiah or whatever.  Killing Trinity was just shedding baggage.  He didn&#039;t grow or learn anything from the experience.  She didn&#039;t sacrifice herself for him.  No great battle was decided as a result.  It was just arbitrary at that point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good example: The death of Obi-Wan Kenobi in Star Wars.  It&#8217;s a necessary part of Luke&#8217;s journey to heroism, something that helps him grow and realize his potential.  It hurts him, yes, but he becomes a better character for it.</p>
<p>A bad example: Trinity in Matrix: Revolutions.  Neo was already the Cyber-Messiah or whatever.  Killing Trinity was just shedding baggage.  He didn&#8217;t grow or learn anything from the experience.  She didn&#8217;t sacrifice herself for him.  No great battle was decided as a result.  It was just arbitrary at that point.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/07/22/punish-your-characters-not-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-14204</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 16:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=5284#comment-14204</guid>
		<description>@WashLives - Very clever on Joss&#039; part.  Still kinda hate him for it, though.

@Chuck - &quot;Spare the audience&quot; is the phrase I go by.  I try not to kill a character unless it&#039;s absolutely necessary, and never for no reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@WashLives &#8211; Very clever on Joss&#8217; part.  Still kinda hate him for it, though.</p>
<p>@Chuck &#8211; &#8220;Spare the audience&#8221; is the phrase I go by.  I try not to kill a character unless it&#8217;s absolutely necessary, and never for no reason.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: terribleminds</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/07/22/punish-your-characters-not-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-14200</link>
		<dc:creator>terribleminds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 14:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=5284#comment-14200</guid>
		<description>@K --

Man, you&#039;re not kidding. Spot on with Hobb. That&#039;s in part why I dodged the series: her hero just went through too much shit for no notably good reason.

Pain must be mitigated by success, as @Lugh said earlier.

Huh.

Cool.

Curious to see if anybody&#039;s reading Hobb&#039;s new series.

-- c.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@K &#8211;</p>
<p>Man, you&#8217;re not kidding. Spot on with Hobb. That&#8217;s in part why I dodged the series: her hero just went through too much shit for no notably good reason.</p>
<p>Pain must be mitigated by success, as @Lugh said earlier.</p>
<p>Huh.</p>
<p>Cool.</p>
<p>Curious to see if anybody&#8217;s reading Hobb&#8217;s new series.</p>
<p>&#8211; c.</p>
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		<title>By: WashLives</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/07/22/punish-your-characters-not-the-audience/comment-page-1/#comment-14199</link>
		<dc:creator>WashLives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=5284#comment-14199</guid>
		<description>On Miranda, when the Serenity crew is talking about how creepy the world is, the camera spins round until it settles on Wash with the line &quot;dead for no reason.&quot; That was the only closure which I felt. It sucked.

Robin Hob does hero suffering well with Fitz in the Assassin series and Capt. Kennit in the Liveship series. She crosses the line in Soldier&#039;s Son, as it becomes trauma and anguish almost for it&#039;s own sake.

K</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Miranda, when the Serenity crew is talking about how creepy the world is, the camera spins round until it settles on Wash with the line &#8220;dead for no reason.&#8221; That was the only closure which I felt. It sucked.</p>
<p>Robin Hob does hero suffering well with Fitz in the Assassin series and Capt. Kennit in the Liveship series. She crosses the line in Soldier&#8217;s Son, as it becomes trauma and anguish almost for it&#8217;s own sake.</p>
<p>K</p>
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