Writing is a foul-mouthed dominatrix that drags me, kicking and screaming, from my porn and forces me to kneel at the leather-clad feet of the flicker screen.

The thing to remember is that in most relationships of this sort, the bottom is the one truly in control of the situation. While you may have the ball-gag secured snugly into your pie-hole, it is your will that guides lash. Take the stinging welts and craft them into a pattern of your own design.

Um…yeah. You know what I mean.

In my opinion only, Art is the end product of Craft.

I’m not entirely sure that the difference between art and craft matters. But some well-crafted chairs sure feel like art, and I don’t just mean in their looks. In fact, I daresay that furniture in general can qualify as an art, and that the real issue here is that you want to believe that art is “higher” or “better” or whatever than craft.

I don’t think that’s necessarily true, but then, I’m not convinced that there’s a meaningful difference between the two.

Kyle:

I don’t “want” to believe anything. I don’t believe that art is higher or better. But that is a connotation that persists in regards to art — not from me, but from the world at large.

The difference between “Art” and “Craft” matters to me. It doesn’t need to matter to you.

Art, as I said, has a lot of connotations that Craft does not.

Craft is a thing that implies skill, learning, trades and traits. Art is a more nebulous entity with uncertain boundaries — one could, in theory, accidentally create art. It does not *necessarily* demand skill. It isn’t by all definitions something you can learn.

That difference is significant in how I approach my work. And that’s what this is about: how I approach my work.

– c.

Craft is in the hands of the creator. Art is in the hands of the audience. I can hone my craft, and my readers can decide if it’s art.

“Craft is in the hands of the creator. Art is in the hands of the audience. I can hone my craft, and my readers can decide if it’s art.”

Yeah, that’s great, Eddy.

Thanks for, y’know, pretty much distilling my post into a single sentence that conveys pretty much exactly what I wanted to say.

In one sentence.

I hate you.

(Lies. I love you. Let me stroke your mane.)

– c.

Over the last six years, I have made hundreds of thousands of dollars out of my writing. The vast VAST majority of those dollars were from my day job as a marketing copywriter (among other things). I still write copy, but it’s not the primary focus of my daily work.

Copywriting is a craft. Knowing when to break the rules as well as sticking to them precisely. Evoking emotion and mood for a variety of products. Explaining why our catheter was better than theirs (yeah, really).

Was it art? I think I produced some very effective copy, stuff that people really thought was cool. In partnership with many excellent graphic designers, we created many neat things. I don’t think it was art, though. It was often elegant, sometimes beautiful, usually manipulative. It was very much dedicated to a specific purpose; to make a boat-load of cash for someone other than myself. But I got paid for my words, whore that I am.

I think most kinds of creative work can be considered crafts because there are skills you can learn to make your work better. If, however, art is about communicating emotion, about imbuing an item with an intrinsic value beyond the sum of its material parts… then perhaps we’re all artists, with very specific audiences, be it a singled loved one or a frothing fan base.

@Eddy: I will now quote this when the topic comes up. Love it.

That’s interesting, Stephen. Many would not consider advertising art, and yet art is designed to evoke emotion and play to the senses — admittedly to make $$, but once more, we go back to the concern over whether money and the desire for money somehow invalidates art. Which once more suggests that “art” is a sticky wicket, whereas “craft” remains a clear enough designation.

– c.

I purposefully avoided using the word “artistic” in my comment above, and found it very difficult to do so. I think that means we use the word to describe something that looks and feels like it could be art, but really isn’t. Does that mean that we somehow know what is art and what isn’t? Or is it really an apologetic word we use when we don’t feel comfortable granting something with being actual, real Art?

That would make so many things artistic, like advertising or good graphic design, or Stephen King novels. Some of them*.

But the wicket is indeed sticky, Chuck, because the word “artistic” it just makes art an even more confusing term.

*I really like Stephen King, no offense meant.

I tend to find this only gets really contentious when people aren’t comfortable with the idea that art can suck. If the idea that something is art is a redemptive one, then you’re making a whole other argument, whether you mean to or not.

-Rob D.

PS – Of course, I also am comfortable with the idea that lots more things are art than I’m smart enough to appreciate. But that’s not an easy point to sell.

There can be no art without craft. At some point the object of creation may transcend “mere” craft, and become something that elevates the emotions to become art, but too much that is intended as art is self-pretentious drivel. Much that was created with craft in mind has become art. (Bach cantatas come to mind. He wasn’t thinking of them as lasting masterpieces; he just needed another one for next Sunday.)

It’s nice to meet someone else who laments the underappreciation of blue collar skills. Like you, I was raised in a working class environment. (Father was a grocery clerk, then a blue-collar employee at Alcoa; mother worked as a cook and waitress in my aunt’s restaurant.) I am always aware the computer on which I try to craft my “art” is a paperweight if someone who hasn’t read a book since high school didn’t wire the house propely. I don’t even want to think of what the joint would smell like if it wasn’t plumbed correctly, and I’m not hauling my own garbage to the dump.

Oh, and thanks a lot. Now I’m hooked on the fucking owls.

@Dana: Word. Sorry about the owls. Bach is a good example, definitely. Dickens, too. Amazing how many of these guys created their work to get paid.

@Rob: That’s definitely a contention point, sure. Art is like beauty, and held to the eye of the beholder. It’s a very subjective, uncertain term. Which makes it troubling, and for my own work, makes it poison.

– c.

What Adam sad up there: art is the end product of craft. Well put.

Writing is a fucking art. Singing is a fucking art. Building a piano is a fucking art. Macaroni necklaces are a fuckin-

You get my point. Money as an end result doesn’t take away from jack shit, and anyone that has to put art in monetary terms pings me as someone who isn’t getting paid for their “art,” which must bring up some uncomfortable personal reflection for them. Heh.

And pretend I wrote “said” instead of “sad.” Leaving comments is not st fucking art. Lol.

I’m generally of the opinion that damn near everything is art. Good art on the other hand is a whooooole lot more subjective. But yeah, I’d even go so far as to classify most of what you write on this here blog as art.

Man, if what I do here is art, the whole world is fucked in the ear.

Ah, Cap’n, it already was. You’re just adding some salacious salt and provoking pepper to the mix.

I despise right down to my spleen when anyone uses the phrase “the craft” to talk about writing. For me, “the craft” strikes the same raw nerve endings as “the muse” does for other people. It is not some artsy-fartsy thing where you get to sip chai lattes and eat baguettes while wearing stripey shirts, crazy scarves and berets in some Parisian cafe — and quite a few people seem to think that’s the writer’s lifestyle. It is blood, it is sweat and it is bitter, bitter tears. And that’s on a good day when the juices are flowing and the story’s working for you.

Many people think that art is easy, fun and stress-free. After all, they assign art therapy to help calm people down, don’t they? Why would they do that if art was hard? It doesn’t stop with writers either. Painters get to splash colors on canvases all day. Musicians do nothing but sing songs and a lot of drugs. What do any of these people have to complain about? It’s not like they’re doing real work, like farming or carpentry or office-temping, after all.

Makes me want to go stabbity to someone’s face.

In conclusion, writing is AN art, but it is not ART in the sense people seem to think it is.

Nerdrage over. The end.

Wow, “craft” bothers you, huh?

We all have our demons, I guess.

– c.

Yeah, I’ve never been able to adequately explain it. Some people get bothered by “the muse”, some people boil over when they hear “writer’s block”. For me, it’s “the craft”.

I’m weird like that.

And it’s not “craft” that sets my teeth on edge. It’s “THE craft”, usually spoken in a snooty, holier-than-thou tone.

Oh. “The Craft.”

Yeah, I can see how that would be agita-bringing.

– c.

Art, not art, who the hell knows, right? I guess cultures decide in the long run. Write what you’re gonna write, sell it if you can, and let the ages sort it out. I got no pretensions. I’m a genre writer. If I get published, I’ll be a cultural mayfly — like the snows of yesteryear gone from this earth in the blink of an eye.

But I will say this — surest way to make sure you DON’T make art is to try to make sure that you do. The minute you start thinking to yourself “This isn’t a story, it’s the seminal defining moment of western civilization” then you’ve got your eyes off the prize and you’re a swirly boat in the cultural crapper.

I want to get the things that Dan O’Shea says and tattoo on them on my chest backward so when I look in the mirror, I can read them and freshly learn his wisdom.

– c.

“Craft is in the hands of the creator. Art is in the hands of the audience. I can hone my craft, and my readers can decide if it’s art.”

More or less. I refer to myself as a hack, and not without a certain amount of pride. To me, the hack’s the guy that works hard at pleasing crowds. Like Paul Bettany playing Chaucer. I’m cool with that.

Nicely said, Russell.

I’m happy to own the hack moniker.

– c.

@Rob Donoghue

“I tend to find this only gets really contentious when people aren’t comfortable with the idea that art can suck.”

Yeah. Years of working with stuff that can’t be called anything _other_ than art pretty much made me comfortable with art sucking.

I know folks will likely scream for blood on this one, but I tell my students that I define art and entertainment as follows:

Entertainment engages you emotionally. You laugh, you cheer, you cry, you root for the little guy, what have you. Art engages you intellectually. You ponder themes, morals and meanings; you compare it to your own feelings and experiences; you find yourself coming back to it later on, even unexpectedly; you discuss it with others and find it has layers to the experience that are tenable and worth exploring.

You can have entertainment that’s not art – I’d say most television qualifies. You can have art that’s not entertainment, as is the case with a lot of Philip Glass compositions. Of course, the best works are both, as I’d argue with a good production of Hamlet.

That’s my $.02

@Chuck:

“Thanks for, y’know, pretty much distilling my post into a single sentence that conveys pretty much exactly what I wanted to say. In one sentence.”

To be fair, it was three sentences. So, you know, it’s three times as long as you thought it would be.

“I hate you.”

Don’t hate the player; hate the game.

Which is… uh… Final Fantasy XIII. I guess. I don’t know. I’ve never really examined that expression until now.

@Paul: Feel free! I’d just like to try to keep attribution floating around with it if possible (like “That jerkface Eddy Webb mumbled something about craft and art and shit. I don’t know. It was stupid.”)

What Eddy said rings true the most for me. (Also giving props to Chuck who also made the same point, only with 1000 additional words.

I’ve never once thought of my writing as “art” or “AN art”. Maybe that’s because the genre that I write (Paranormal Romance) is typically referred to in a condescending manner (you know, “All those smut books are the same. There’s no real content to them.”) from people who aren’t fans of the romance genre. Although I politely disagree with those people (my husband), I would still never go so far as to say that a romance book could change someone’s life, much less save it.

My goal is to produce a well-written, romantic and action-packed story set in fantastical worlds that will entertain my readers and hopefully inspire them to buy my next story. (And if they become super-fans and stalk me at all the writers’ conferences and become founding members of my fan club, then that’s fine with me, too.) I’m not trying to make a difference with my writing, I don’t think my books are going to be toted as Great American Literature and become required reading in college English classes in 50 years.

I want to continue to grown and learn in this, my chosen craft. I want it to be my full time job and even my hobby on the side. Thoughts of doing nothing but writing (aside from spending time with my family of course) what I love for the rest of my life consume me and fuel my thirst for knowledge and the practiced experience that will get me there.

Those are just my humble thoughts on the matter. Maybe if I wrote other things – things with “substance” – I would look at my writing as more of an art, but I don’t think so. The term “art” to me is SOOO subjective. People pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for paintings that look like a paintball war threw up on the canvas and call it a masterpiece. HUH? My kids could’ve done that when they were toddlers, for fuck’s sake. I have piles of painted construction paper to prove it. However, I’m not going to take away the fact that someone might look at that painting and see an unintentional image of a lady that reminds them of their mother, or maybe they created something close to it when they were 5, but it was lost in a house fire and now they have to have this larger version as a reminder that life is fragile. I don’t know.

Anyway, I’ll stop babbling. Again I refer to what Chuck and Eddy said. The End.

Oh, and sorry about the guacamole, Chuck. I eat that stuff with a mixing spoon.

Craft…art…craft…art…blah…blah…blah. What’s the point in arguing semantics? A master woods craftsman will argue that his work is not art. 100 years later, on “Antiques Roadshow”, they’ll label it art.

“Art is any product of inspiration, that in turn, inspires.” -Paul DeLaurentis Jr.

I went to vo-tech for commercial art for three years. Some argued that advertising design wasn’t art. Some of the artists liked to be refered to a “creative specialists” This is horse-hockey (to quote the revered Colonel Potter).

At the end of the day, it’s just a freakin’ job title. It’ll be deemed “good”, “bad”, or “ugly” art somewhere down the line. At the end of the day…I believe that writing is art. Then again…I also believe that magicians, snowboard half-pipe tricksters, and Rush Limbaugh are all artists in their own rights.

Art can mean a lot of things, but I don’t think any of it is untouchable. Criticism is a vital — and I use that word because it means “full of life” — part of art. I’ve accepted works of fine art as art but then thought nothing much else about them. That’s not great art. Great art demands criticism, which can include, “I love it and want to own it.” So, art and commerce can overlap. No big deal.

But, when we agree that art can suck (as Rob wonderfully puts it), we start dealing with elevations of art. So it goes. Not all art is created equal. So this is where I more or less agree with Eddy, too, that art is a label that can be applied by the observer — remembering that the creator gets a vote. So does the customer.

Can craft be “lower” than art? Sure. I use “It’s art” as a honorific and so should you. (Oh! Sassy!) Is craft necessarily “lower” than art? Nope. The notion that craft and art are inherently separate is a tricky ploy, as crafting is the process by which art is created — and when we say “the arts” we so often mean “the crafts.” So it goes. But the descriptivist fact is that Art-hood is a label of respect, and thus an elevation of some kind. An elevation doesn’t have to disparage that which is not elevated, though.

Ultimately, I think my definition of “art” may just have to be a list of all the things I’ve accepted as art, and woe be to he who tries to draw a cogent outline around all those objects in such a way that they form an easy pyramid or three tidy categories.

Or something. My heart’s not really in this today.

[...] sheer love of it, not necessarily for the money. Now, I want to get paid for what I do as much as this shouty beard-faced fellow, but the fact that I’m not yet isn’t going to stop me from doing it. It’s just [...]

Well, it’s 1:35 am (Brazilian Standard Time), my daug ter refuses to go to bed, and I’m fa ing some trouble wit my keyboard, as you probably an see, so I’m gonna be brief:

I like t e w ole An ient Greek idea about art being a raft or te né. E eryt ing else is alorati e, or too relati isti and post-modern for my tiny blue- ollar brain to ope wit .

Oy, I wis I ad all t e letters to finis t is!