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	<title>Comments on: Once Upon A Playtime</title>
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	<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/03/18/once-upon-a-playtime/</link>
	<description>Chuck Wendig: Freelance Penmonkey</description>
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		<title>By: KamiYugure</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/03/18/once-upon-a-playtime/comment-page-2/#comment-48680</link>
		<dc:creator>KamiYugure</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jun 2011 00:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=3578#comment-48680</guid>
		<description>I know this is an old article but I hope you hear me out, anyway.  I, as an aspiring game designer and a lover of storytelling and being in control, like to look at this from a different perspective.  Instead of the game designer and their teams of artists, writers and programmers being the ones telling the story, I believe that with a good game, the creators give the PLAYER a baseline from which THEY can tell THEIR VERSION of the story the way THEY want to.  In this effect, yes it is a medium of storyTELLING - the player creates their own story given the tools, background, etc. by the designers in whatever way and flavor they so choose.  What makes a good game is Power to the Players, as they say.  The player can tell the most ridiculous nonsensical, poorly designed story they want, but in the end, it&#039;s the experience AND the story that THEY wanted out of the game.  Great examples of games that do a pretty good job of letting the players stay in charge of their own story are The Sims, The Elder Scrolls Series, World of Warcraft, sandbox-type games, RPGs that don&#039;t shove a story down your throat *coughfinalfantasycough*, etc.

The PLAYER is the storyteller.

 - love dani</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this is an old article but I hope you hear me out, anyway.  I, as an aspiring game designer and a lover of storytelling and being in control, like to look at this from a different perspective.  Instead of the game designer and their teams of artists, writers and programmers being the ones telling the story, I believe that with a good game, the creators give the PLAYER a baseline from which THEY can tell THEIR VERSION of the story the way THEY want to.  In this effect, yes it is a medium of storyTELLING &#8211; the player creates their own story given the tools, background, etc. by the designers in whatever way and flavor they so choose.  What makes a good game is Power to the Players, as they say.  The player can tell the most ridiculous nonsensical, poorly designed story they want, but in the end, it&#8217;s the experience AND the story that THEY wanted out of the game.  Great examples of games that do a pretty good job of letting the players stay in charge of their own story are The Sims, The Elder Scrolls Series, World of Warcraft, sandbox-type games, RPGs that don&#8217;t shove a story down your throat *coughfinalfantasycough*, etc.</p>
<p>The PLAYER is the storyteller.</p>
<p> &#8211; love dani</p>
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		<title>By: Video Games and Character Part I &#171; Word Asylum</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/03/18/once-upon-a-playtime/comment-page-2/#comment-9931</link>
		<dc:creator>Video Games and Character Part I &#171; Word Asylum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 01:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=3578#comment-9931</guid>
		<description>[...] “Once Upon a Playtime: Can Games Tell Effective Stories?”, “Once Upon a Playtime II: Revenge of the Gamestory”, and “Once Upon a Playtime III: Return to the Gamestory Lagoon”.  His recount of what his workshop entailed can be found here, “Once Upon a Playtime: The Final Countdown” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] “Once Upon a Playtime: Can Games Tell Effective Stories?”, “Once Upon a Playtime II: Revenge of the Gamestory”, and “Once Upon a Playtime III: Return to the Gamestory Lagoon”.  His recount of what his workshop entailed can be found here, “Once Upon a Playtime: The Final Countdown” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Video Games and Character Part I &#171; An Idiot&#39;s Guide to Idiocy</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/03/18/once-upon-a-playtime/comment-page-2/#comment-8627</link>
		<dc:creator>Video Games and Character Part I &#171; An Idiot&#39;s Guide to Idiocy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Apr 2010 14:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=3578#comment-8627</guid>
		<description>[...] “Once Upon a Playtime: Can Games Tell Effective Stories?”, “Once Upon a Playtime II: Revenge of the Gamestory”, and “Once Upon a Playtime III: Return to the Gamestory Lagoon”.  His recount of what his workshop entailed can be found here, “Once Upon a Playtime: The Final Countdown” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] “Once Upon a Playtime: Can Games Tell Effective Stories?”, “Once Upon a Playtime II: Revenge of the Gamestory”, and “Once Upon a Playtime III: Return to the Gamestory Lagoon”.  His recount of what his workshop entailed can be found here, “Once Upon a Playtime: The Final Countdown” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Once Upon A Playtime</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/03/18/once-upon-a-playtime/comment-page-2/#comment-8571</link>
		<dc:creator>Once Upon A Playtime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Apr 2010 04:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=3578#comment-8571</guid>
		<description>[...] were here for the formative discussions that built to the workshop I gave this past weekend. (Part One, Part Two, and then Part Three.) You can also see Guy&#8217;s kick-ass recap of this and the whole [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] were here for the formative discussions that built to the workshop I gave this past weekend. (Part One, Part Two, and then Part Three.) You can also see Guy&#8217;s kick-ass recap of this and the whole [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Once Upon A Playtime III: Return To The Gamestory Lagoon! &#171; Technoskald</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/03/18/once-upon-a-playtime/comment-page-1/#comment-8424</link>
		<dc:creator>Once Upon A Playtime III: Return To The Gamestory Lagoon! &#171; Technoskald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2010 02:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=3578#comment-8424</guid>
		<description>[...] and if you need them, the first two parts are here (Part One!) and here (Part Two!). New comments have been added since last you looked, I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and if you need them, the first two parts are here (Part One!) and here (Part Two!). New comments have been added since last you looked, I [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Moving from Blob to Blob &#124; Blog of Fate</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/03/18/once-upon-a-playtime/comment-page-1/#comment-8202</link>
		<dc:creator>Moving from Blob to Blob &#124; Blog of Fate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Mar 2010 17:56:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=3578#comment-8202</guid>
		<description>[...] Part I; Part II; Part III [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Part I; Part II; Part III [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Once Upon A Playtime III: Return To The Gamestory Lagoon!</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/03/18/once-upon-a-playtime/comment-page-1/#comment-8156</link>
		<dc:creator>Once Upon A Playtime III: Return To The Gamestory Lagoon!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 12:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=3578#comment-8156</guid>
		<description>[...] and if you need them, the first two parts are here (Part One!) and here (Part Two!). New comments have been added since last you looked, I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and if you need them, the first two parts are here (Part One!) and here (Part Two!). New comments have been added since last you looked, I [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: terribleminds</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/03/18/once-upon-a-playtime/comment-page-1/#comment-8062</link>
		<dc:creator>terribleminds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=3578#comment-8062</guid>
		<description>Doktor Doyce:

I think we&#039;re going to have to disagree -- or, at least, agree that we&#039;re coming at this issue from two different angles. Mass Effect 2 is a game I liked a lot. I don&#039;t know that it&#039;s a story I liked a lot, though -- in fact, it&#039;s overall story is largely incomprehensible or silly, so generic I can barely commit much attention to it. And part of me wonders if that&#039;s a necessary thing. What you describe -- &quot;Great action movie!&quot; &quot;Cheering and shouting!&quot; are not the earmarks of a good story. They&#039;re marks of a good experience. And ME2 is very much that. It&#039;s a great experience. And it takes special crafting to come up with that level of experience. It&#039;s a dumb story in a rich storyworld -- a generic adventure amidst great characters, fascinating situations, and troubling moral quandaries. 

And, to be clear, I don&#039;t consider that a bad thing.

Now, when you talk about options -- Frodo dies, Sauron wins, Eowyn falls down a well and is eaten by piranha -- that&#039;s great, and that&#039;s part of the consideration that a *game* designer needs to think about. It&#039;s a different toolset. Hell, it&#039;s a different mindset. 

But, but, but! Tolkien probably would&#039;ve shot himself if he thought that&#039;s what people wanted from his story. A well-crafted story makes all the elements as they happen critical to the piece. Frodo making it all the way is important to the story. Aragorn&#039;s choices matter. They all matter. Everything matters. But in a story where everything is *optional* then nothing can matter, not from the creator-driven, author-described experience. 

That&#039;s a very big difference. It puts a lot of power in the player&#039;s hands, and takes a lot of power away from the author. And *that&#039;s okay* -- but it&#039;s an important realization on the road toward creating good game stories.

-- c.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doktor Doyce:</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;re going to have to disagree &#8212; or, at least, agree that we&#8217;re coming at this issue from two different angles. Mass Effect 2 is a game I liked a lot. I don&#8217;t know that it&#8217;s a story I liked a lot, though &#8212; in fact, it&#8217;s overall story is largely incomprehensible or silly, so generic I can barely commit much attention to it. And part of me wonders if that&#8217;s a necessary thing. What you describe &#8212; &#8220;Great action movie!&#8221; &#8220;Cheering and shouting!&#8221; are not the earmarks of a good story. They&#8217;re marks of a good experience. And ME2 is very much that. It&#8217;s a great experience. And it takes special crafting to come up with that level of experience. It&#8217;s a dumb story in a rich storyworld &#8212; a generic adventure amidst great characters, fascinating situations, and troubling moral quandaries. </p>
<p>And, to be clear, I don&#8217;t consider that a bad thing.</p>
<p>Now, when you talk about options &#8212; Frodo dies, Sauron wins, Eowyn falls down a well and is eaten by piranha &#8212; that&#8217;s great, and that&#8217;s part of the consideration that a *game* designer needs to think about. It&#8217;s a different toolset. Hell, it&#8217;s a different mindset. </p>
<p>But, but, but! Tolkien probably would&#8217;ve shot himself if he thought that&#8217;s what people wanted from his story. A well-crafted story makes all the elements as they happen critical to the piece. Frodo making it all the way is important to the story. Aragorn&#8217;s choices matter. They all matter. Everything matters. But in a story where everything is *optional* then nothing can matter, not from the creator-driven, author-described experience. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s a very big difference. It puts a lot of power in the player&#8217;s hands, and takes a lot of power away from the author. And *that&#8217;s okay* &#8212; but it&#8217;s an important realization on the road toward creating good game stories.</p>
<p>&#8211; c.</p>
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		<title>By: Stories within Games &#8211; doyce testerman</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/03/18/once-upon-a-playtime/comment-page-1/#comment-8061</link>
		<dc:creator>Stories within Games &#8211; doyce testerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=3578#comment-8061</guid>
		<description>[...] Chuck poked at this a couple times last week &#8212; a discussion I didn&#8217;t jump into because I was still playing through the games that I suspected might have been contributors to the brain-stew, so I&#8217;m getting to it late, but in it, he draws distinctions between books and movies as being passive entertainment, and games being more interactive and thus (I&#8217;m sort of interpreting/paraphrasing here, so apologies in advance if I misrepresent) more likely to dilute the story to the point of not being a story anymore. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Chuck poked at this a couple times last week &#8212; a discussion I didn&#8217;t jump into because I was still playing through the games that I suspected might have been contributors to the brain-stew, so I&#8217;m getting to it late, but in it, he draws distinctions between books and movies as being passive entertainment, and games being more interactive and thus (I&#8217;m sort of interpreting/paraphrasing here, so apologies in advance if I misrepresent) more likely to dilute the story to the point of not being a story anymore. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Doyce</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2010/03/18/once-upon-a-playtime/comment-page-1/#comment-8054</link>
		<dc:creator>Doyce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:20:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=3578#comment-8054</guid>
		<description>(Christ, that was the short version?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Christ, that was the short version?)</p>
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