Way to go and bring… y’know, *reason* into this discussion, and even-handed *moderation*. You shut up. You shut up and you eat a handful of poo-poo.

…

Okay, yeah, great comment, and you pretty much said it all.

Happy Holidays.

– c.

It’s not as simple as adding a better (to you) story to a stellar effects driven film to make it WOWBANGAWESOME! Kurosawa is a good example: films considered “classics” are really fairly typical stories.

When you consider that everyone has different tastes, the “Story is King” metric is massively draconian.

Don’t get me wrong…I’ve seen Avatar and thought it was one of the most amazing visual spectacles ever…even if the story is fairly typical. I’m an illustrator, of course I’m geeking over the visuals. The plot? Meh, passable.

I also love The Magnificent Seven even though the story is old. Same with several films (stories). I think most films are based on stories that are fairly common (though often twisted and tweaked to fit a theme.) Not all of them. There is room for original material and there are original stories out there. Problem is that in this day and age we’ve seen a lot, and so the odds of us comparing any story to something else and saying it’s old, tired and rehashed ad nauseum is pretty easy. Jeebus, how many young hero coming of age stories are there out there?

Personally, I like a plot that surprises me and that I don’t see coming. I prefer a “good story”. Of course sometimes a good story is wholly original…sometimes it’s a smart retelling for a new audience.

The problem I think is us. Sometimes we allow the story to take us on a journey, even though it resembles other journeys, sometimes we rebel as soon as it seems familiar.

Ultimately we need to sit down and watch it for ourselves without bias or comparing to anything else and give it a fair shake before deciding is the only way to decide.

Prejudice: Pre-Judging anything, whether a book, a movie, a song, a person…whatever…it’s ridiculous. We really don’t know if something will catch us and take us on a journey until we try it for ourselves.

I’m a reviewer PT and I’ll be honest, one of the biggest things I’ve learned is to disregard everyone else’s reviews and opinions and see it/ read it for myself. I’ve found some real gems. Even stuff that I usually loathe. I’ve been surprised several times in the past few years I’ve been doing this.

I’ve been in a room with former marines watching FMJ, and seen them tear up at parts. I can’t ever see that happening with the other.

First, all this just goes to show how complex the subject of “story” is, especially in regards to film! I mean, holy crap.

Re: Avatar.

The story did add to it, yes. Watching and experiencing the world would be great for like, 15-30 minutes. But the story, for all that it gets knocked around, is simple and forthright, and does add something.

The issue really is — a *better* story would have added *more* in this case. Again, it would’ve been the transition from a Good Movie to a Great Film.

YMMV, of course.

– c.

You’ve commented here a number of times. There’s no way they’ll let you go into politics with that on your belt. I mean, rape, murder, extortion — sure, maybe. Posting here? Nuh-uh.

Re: AOD –

Really? Really? (If I say it again, will it enforce my point? REALLY?) The story in AOD is fine. But really, who cares? It’s a slapdash organization of events. Don’t get me wrong — it’s awesome. It’s really one of my favorite movies. But I don’t hold any illusions about it being high art. (ED2 is actually even lighter on story — and, again, that’s okay. These are films that prove the point that a serviceable story can be elevated to greatness when all other things are in proper alignment.)

More later (a resp. to David, because he brings up good stuff).

– c.

Now I have to abandon my pre-boycott of Avatar plans so I can go see it just I can continue having this conversation. Damn you all for aborting what could be a perfectly good chance to pig-headed and close-minded with no basis in personal knowledge. How am I ever going to get into politics now?

Because although Paranormal Activity made an outstanding amount compared to its budget, it’s still nothing compared to say… Transformers 2.

You’re correct on Dark Knight. That one slipped my mind. It’s definitely a blockbuster full of thinking along with the cool. I wonder though: Would have it done as well without that story? I think it might have been comparable. Dark Knight was really the exception to the rule. It surprised me on a number of counts. (This coming from a guy that’s usually bored to death of big budget superhero flicks.)

I keep wanting to see District 9. I swear I will. Although, it’s still not comparable to one of the big ones.

You mention my boy Raimi. While the Evil Dead movies aren’t exactly War and Peace, they’re great horror/comedy stories. You guys touched on this earlier, but what makes a good horror story isn’t necessarily the same thing as an everyday good story. I would go so far as to say Army of Darkness is a really strong story. Sure, it’s just Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court with a goofball. But it sold me. It’s hilarious. Ash is a great character, and the circumstances he’s put in flow well and enhance the emotions evoked by the comedy/slapstick gore Raimi’s so good at.

So I guess in that regards, what I think is a strong story is one that actually takes the events showcased in the film to a new level. Look at Jaws. It’s actually a kind of silly story. It’s not groundbreaking writing. But the writing does actually enhance what’s occurring. Terminator 2 isn’t Homer. But it builds a convincing world with urgency and power. It gives you characters that makes otherwise yawnworthy events very engaging. But Transformers and Bad Boys? Both of those films could have the plot stripped out, and there’d be no loss in value. They’re just excuses to jump from gunshot to explosion to cgi robot to whatever.

So… Avatar. Do you think the story added to it? Do you think that if you were just watching that world, listening to the characters and being immersed, that it’d be a significantly different film for you?

– c.