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	<title>Comments on: Geist: The Sin-Eaters</title>
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	<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/18/geist-the-sin-eaters/</link>
	<description>Chuck Wendig: Freelance Penmonkey</description>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/18/geist-the-sin-eaters/comment-page-1/#comment-4691</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 22:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2236#comment-4691</guid>
		<description>Very interesting read.  I have bought damn near everything NWOD and this is the first game that I have wanted to play and not just read.  so much so that I am starting up a campaign.

Here is my elevator pitch - ymmv.

&quot;You were hit by a semi and as you were laying there on the road, dying, a guy leans over you.  &quot;You don&#039;t want to be dead any more than I do&quot; he holds out his ghostly hand and you make a pact with something else and are reborn but not quite alone.

You live, you are hard as hell to kill now and have spooky powers.  Oh and you see the dead everywhere.

Where do you go from here?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting read.  I have bought damn near everything NWOD and this is the first game that I have wanted to play and not just read.  so much so that I am starting up a campaign.</p>
<p>Here is my elevator pitch &#8211; ymmv.</p>
<p>&#8220;You were hit by a semi and as you were laying there on the road, dying, a guy leans over you.  &#8220;You don&#8217;t want to be dead any more than I do&#8221; he holds out his ghostly hand and you make a pact with something else and are reborn but not quite alone.</p>
<p>You live, you are hard as hell to kill now and have spooky powers.  Oh and you see the dead everywhere.</p>
<p>Where do you go from here?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/18/geist-the-sin-eaters/comment-page-1/#comment-3492</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 02:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2236#comment-3492</guid>
		<description>It was fun working with you on the mementos! And on the Possessed stuff for that matter. Co-writer has a different vibe than dev that is fun to explore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was fun working with you on the mementos! And on the Possessed stuff for that matter. Co-writer has a different vibe than dev that is fun to explore.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Woodworth</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/18/geist-the-sin-eaters/comment-page-1/#comment-3456</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Woodworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2236#comment-3456</guid>
		<description>Oh, and the ghost stories that my players make up for their geists have universally made me shiver ... they&#039;re a super creepy element of the game, and work extremely well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and the ghost stories that my players make up for their geists have universally made me shiver &#8230; they&#8217;re a super creepy element of the game, and work extremely well.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Woodworth</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/18/geist-the-sin-eaters/comment-page-1/#comment-3455</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Woodworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 18:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2236#comment-3455</guid>
		<description>In my group, Geist has become the first game to stick as a long-term tabletop game in a very long time. People just really, really dig it, and for a lot of the reasons you specified - its uniqueness, its joie de vivre, its unabashed weirdness. In particular, I think the Grim Fandango note hit it right on the head - it&#039;s fun to have a WW game about death that isn&#039;t as depressing as Wraith or as full of corporate cynicism as Orpheus. (Both are fun, especially Orpheus, but that&#039;s another post.) It&#039;s an old adage that a lot of games and stories toy with but few get right - &quot;being close to death makes you celebrate life.&quot;

All I ask is that you quit writing/developing games that make me want to freelance again. It&#039;s like dangling the heroin outside the methadone clinic. Leave me in peace, dammit! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my group, Geist has become the first game to stick as a long-term tabletop game in a very long time. People just really, really dig it, and for a lot of the reasons you specified &#8211; its uniqueness, its joie de vivre, its unabashed weirdness. In particular, I think the Grim Fandango note hit it right on the head &#8211; it&#8217;s fun to have a WW game about death that isn&#8217;t as depressing as Wraith or as full of corporate cynicism as Orpheus. (Both are fun, especially Orpheus, but that&#8217;s another post.) It&#8217;s an old adage that a lot of games and stories toy with but few get right &#8211; &#8220;being close to death makes you celebrate life.&#8221;</p>
<p>All I ask is that you quit writing/developing games that make me want to freelance again. It&#8217;s like dangling the heroin outside the methadone clinic. Leave me in peace, dammit! <img src='http://terribleminds.com/ramble/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Scionic</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/18/geist-the-sin-eaters/comment-page-1/#comment-3453</link>
		<dc:creator>Scionic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2236#comment-3453</guid>
		<description>Slow burns are fine: I mean, let&#039;s face it the original Vampire sort of went that way until second edition came out.  Igniting the spark for people is really difficult though, and I see now that three people (two of the Boyz In Da Wolf) have trouble explaining it also.  Now there is a good blog topic or contest: &quot;Catch-phrase Geist in ten words or less, win a free Scratch and Sniff Wendig Sticker&quot;.  

Josh: It took me almost a year to be sold on nWoD, I had a lot of reservation about the system (and to be perfectly honest, I still do - and that&#039;s why the Golden Rule is still the best one).  The fluff of nWoD is OMFG amazing though.  My wife loves vampire fiction but hated The Masquerade, and the Requiem&#039;s story got her so much that not only did she try it out, she ran a game for me (and let me tell you, playing one of the few Invictus in a town full of Crones is a very suspenseful game).  Of all the backstories, I enjoyed Werewolf and Changeling the most.  For total kick ass seat-of-your-pants games, Hunter takes you by the balls then spits them in a Salad Shooter (There you go Chuck.  How&#039;s that for a fluff quote?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slow burns are fine: I mean, let&#8217;s face it the original Vampire sort of went that way until second edition came out.  Igniting the spark for people is really difficult though, and I see now that three people (two of the Boyz In Da Wolf) have trouble explaining it also.  Now there is a good blog topic or contest: &#8220;Catch-phrase Geist in ten words or less, win a free Scratch and Sniff Wendig Sticker&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Josh: It took me almost a year to be sold on nWoD, I had a lot of reservation about the system (and to be perfectly honest, I still do &#8211; and that&#8217;s why the Golden Rule is still the best one).  The fluff of nWoD is OMFG amazing though.  My wife loves vampire fiction but hated The Masquerade, and the Requiem&#8217;s story got her so much that not only did she try it out, she ran a game for me (and let me tell you, playing one of the few Invictus in a town full of Crones is a very suspenseful game).  Of all the backstories, I enjoyed Werewolf and Changeling the most.  For total kick ass seat-of-your-pants games, Hunter takes you by the balls then spits them in a Salad Shooter (There you go Chuck.  How&#8217;s that for a fluff quote?).</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/18/geist-the-sin-eaters/comment-page-1/#comment-3450</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2236#comment-3450</guid>
		<description>The more new material introduced to the new World of Darkness, the more I&#039;m interested in actually playing and running games in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more new material introduced to the new World of Darkness, the more I&#8217;m interested in actually playing and running games in it.</p>
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		<title>By: Eddy Webb</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/18/geist-the-sin-eaters/comment-page-1/#comment-3449</link>
		<dc:creator>Eddy Webb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2236#comment-3449</guid>
		<description>I ran into the problem of elevator pitching Geist a lot at GenCon. It just doesn&#039;t fall into a neat box, and I think that&#039;s why some people aren&#039;t immediately grabbed by it. I think this game is going to be more of a slow burn than the inherent awesome of Hunter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I ran into the problem of elevator pitching Geist a lot at GenCon. It just doesn&#8217;t fall into a neat box, and I think that&#8217;s why some people aren&#8217;t immediately grabbed by it. I think this game is going to be more of a slow burn than the inherent awesome of Hunter.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/18/geist-the-sin-eaters/comment-page-1/#comment-3447</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2236#comment-3447</guid>
		<description>Ohhhh. I getcha. See, here&#039;s for me one of Geist&#039;s outside-the-game issues, and this might be zeroing in on your problem:

I have a very hard time explaining it. It&#039;s not easily summed up --&quot;You hunt monsters,&quot; &quot;You play vampires,&quot; etc.

I ramble when I try to define it for others: &quot;Well, you play these people who may or may not have had a scrape with death, and now they&#039;re inhabited by a geist, not a ghost, and it&#039;s part spirit, but they&#039;re not *possessed* so much as they have a symbiotic relationship with it, and they&#039;re called Sin-Eaters because... errrm.&quot;

(The &quot;Sin-Eater&quot; moniker, while hot, I think could&#039;ve been given more juice throughout the text, but that&#039;s just me. Also, &quot;You play characters that eat sins&quot; is equally not helpful.)

You can describe it in a loftier way: &quot;It&#039;s a game about embracing life after being touched by death,&quot; or even the tagline, &quot;It&#039;s a game about second chances,&quot; and that might hook people. Alternately, it might be too esoteric a description.

-- c.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ohhhh. I getcha. See, here&#8217;s for me one of Geist&#8217;s outside-the-game issues, and this might be zeroing in on your problem:</p>
<p>I have a very hard time explaining it. It&#8217;s not easily summed up &#8211;&#8221;You hunt monsters,&#8221; &#8220;You play vampires,&#8221; etc.</p>
<p>I ramble when I try to define it for others: &#8220;Well, you play these people who may or may not have had a scrape with death, and now they&#8217;re inhabited by a geist, not a ghost, and it&#8217;s part spirit, but they&#8217;re not *possessed* so much as they have a symbiotic relationship with it, and they&#8217;re called Sin-Eaters because&#8230; errrm.&#8221;</p>
<p>(The &#8220;Sin-Eater&#8221; moniker, while hot, I think could&#8217;ve been given more juice throughout the text, but that&#8217;s just me. Also, &#8220;You play characters that eat sins&#8221; is equally not helpful.)</p>
<p>You can describe it in a loftier way: &#8220;It&#8217;s a game about embracing life after being touched by death,&#8221; or even the tagline, &#8220;It&#8217;s a game about second chances,&#8221; and that might hook people. Alternately, it might be too esoteric a description.</p>
<p>&#8211; c.</p>
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		<title>By: Scionic</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/18/geist-the-sin-eaters/comment-page-1/#comment-3446</link>
		<dc:creator>Scionic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 14:35:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2236#comment-3446</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s just it!  Geist is for me on a lot of levels.  My problem with it isn&#039;t getting it started up, it&#039;s where to take it.  I can very easily get into the mindset to play it, but I can&#039;t get other people into it... to be perfectly honest, it&#039;s been an uphill battle to even get people interested in it.  They took to Hunter like fish to sexy-big-flippered-slutty fish, and they found Changeling to be just as amazing.  However, telling them about Geist (including my wife, who pretty much IV drips anything White Wolf publishes into her veins) has not met with even the dimmest spark of interest.  

Again, I just don&#039;t get it and it sparks me back to Wraith/Orpheus which had the same problem.  To examine it more, Wraith is easily what I consider oWoD&#039;s best game.  Hands down, with a bullet and a hardon.  It was just so well put together, the concepts so personal and powerful, and the afterlife so beautifully represented.  Even the artwork was cooler than two handfulls of C4.  With all that going for it, the game flopped on a local play level, and from what I understand it did not do well for sales or with other gamers as well.  But you see people (even still) that are absolutely devoted to it, they &quot;got it&quot;.  I would be one of those people.  I didn&#039;t like Orpheus so much, though I tried it and thought it was pretty neat... it just wasn&#039;t Wraith enough for me.

I was worried that maybe I approached Geist with to much Wraith baggage, but I don&#039;t think that is the case.  While I easily see similarities, it is in no way the same game and I love it for what it is.  That being said, I still struggle with where to take a game on the long run.  And I want to know, goddamit I would love to be able to hit that &quot;stop overexamining shit&quot; switch in my brain and just let the game take me wherever, but I can&#039;t.  It&#039;s also the one game I&#039;ve met where my own enthusiasm for a system or setting can&#039;t win anyone around me over to giving it a try.

Too long, didn&#039;t read version:  Wraith = Great.  Orpheus = Pretty Neat.  Geist = Fucking Kickass.  Erotic fish reference.  Am I fucking it up?  Can&#039;t get other people interested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s just it!  Geist is for me on a lot of levels.  My problem with it isn&#8217;t getting it started up, it&#8217;s where to take it.  I can very easily get into the mindset to play it, but I can&#8217;t get other people into it&#8230; to be perfectly honest, it&#8217;s been an uphill battle to even get people interested in it.  They took to Hunter like fish to sexy-big-flippered-slutty fish, and they found Changeling to be just as amazing.  However, telling them about Geist (including my wife, who pretty much IV drips anything White Wolf publishes into her veins) has not met with even the dimmest spark of interest.  </p>
<p>Again, I just don&#8217;t get it and it sparks me back to Wraith/Orpheus which had the same problem.  To examine it more, Wraith is easily what I consider oWoD&#8217;s best game.  Hands down, with a bullet and a hardon.  It was just so well put together, the concepts so personal and powerful, and the afterlife so beautifully represented.  Even the artwork was cooler than two handfulls of C4.  With all that going for it, the game flopped on a local play level, and from what I understand it did not do well for sales or with other gamers as well.  But you see people (even still) that are absolutely devoted to it, they &#8220;got it&#8221;.  I would be one of those people.  I didn&#8217;t like Orpheus so much, though I tried it and thought it was pretty neat&#8230; it just wasn&#8217;t Wraith enough for me.</p>
<p>I was worried that maybe I approached Geist with to much Wraith baggage, but I don&#8217;t think that is the case.  While I easily see similarities, it is in no way the same game and I love it for what it is.  That being said, I still struggle with where to take a game on the long run.  And I want to know, goddamit I would love to be able to hit that &#8220;stop overexamining shit&#8221; switch in my brain and just let the game take me wherever, but I can&#8217;t.  It&#8217;s also the one game I&#8217;ve met where my own enthusiasm for a system or setting can&#8217;t win anyone around me over to giving it a try.</p>
<p>Too long, didn&#8217;t read version:  Wraith = Great.  Orpheus = Pretty Neat.  Geist = Fucking Kickass.  Erotic fish reference.  Am I fucking it up?  Can&#8217;t get other people interested.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/18/geist-the-sin-eaters/comment-page-1/#comment-3444</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2236#comment-3444</guid>
		<description>Scionic:

DIE! DIE! I KEEL YOU! JIHAD!

...

Oh, wait, no! That&#039;s not it at all.

I get you. Every game is not for everybody. No sweat. I&#039;m a little surprised, though -- Wraith I find just... troubling to pick up. Beautiful game, elegant and dark and wonderful, but very hard to throw together a game and jump in with both feet. Geist, I find has so many cool and easy elements that it feels like it&#039;d be fun to just put a game together, use half of what&#039;s written without worrying about the other half (you choose which!) and boom, game-time.

Orpheus, too. So easy. Corporate espionage + ghosts. Awesome. 

Sorry to hear Geist isn&#039;t for you. 

Hunter, of course, must be.

IT MUST BE.

(jihad!)

-- c.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scionic:</p>
<p>DIE! DIE! I KEEL YOU! JIHAD!</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>Oh, wait, no! That&#8217;s not it at all.</p>
<p>I get you. Every game is not for everybody. No sweat. I&#8217;m a little surprised, though &#8212; Wraith I find just&#8230; troubling to pick up. Beautiful game, elegant and dark and wonderful, but very hard to throw together a game and jump in with both feet. Geist, I find has so many cool and easy elements that it feels like it&#8217;d be fun to just put a game together, use half of what&#8217;s written without worrying about the other half (you choose which!) and boom, game-time.</p>
<p>Orpheus, too. So easy. Corporate espionage + ghosts. Awesome. </p>
<p>Sorry to hear Geist isn&#8217;t for you. </p>
<p>Hunter, of course, must be.</p>
<p>IT MUST BE.</p>
<p>(jihad!)</p>
<p>&#8211; c.</p>
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