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	<title>Comments on: You Must Make The Reader Lay An Egg And Then&#8230; Eat The Egg? Or Suck The Egg? Something Egg?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/17/you-must-make-the-reader-lay-an-egg-and-then-eat-the-egg-or-suck-the-egg-something-egg/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/17/you-must-make-the-reader-lay-an-egg-and-then-eat-the-egg-or-suck-the-egg-something-egg/</link>
	<description>Chuck Wendig: Freelance Penmonkey</description>
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		<title>By: DeAnna</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/17/you-must-make-the-reader-lay-an-egg-and-then-eat-the-egg-or-suck-the-egg-something-egg/comment-page-1/#comment-3483</link>
		<dc:creator>DeAnna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 15:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2221#comment-3483</guid>
		<description>To push this a little further - you could approach your story like you&#039;re writing a mystery.  What MUST the reader know?  Now, don&#039;t say that; give clues instead.

I just finished up reading a year&#039;s worth of Gene Wolfe.  My brain is on moebius-wards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To push this a little further &#8211; you could approach your story like you&#8217;re writing a mystery.  What MUST the reader know?  Now, don&#8217;t say that; give clues instead.</p>
<p>I just finished up reading a year&#8217;s worth of Gene Wolfe.  My brain is on moebius-wards.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/17/you-must-make-the-reader-lay-an-egg-and-then-eat-the-egg-or-suck-the-egg-something-egg/comment-page-1/#comment-3442</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2221#comment-3442</guid>
		<description>Heather:

Word-up. The best plots in a game are the ones that grow out of the work of the players, IMHO.

-- c.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heather:</p>
<p>Word-up. The best plots in a game are the ones that grow out of the work of the players, IMHO.</p>
<p>&#8211; c.</p>
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		<title>By: heather</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/17/you-must-make-the-reader-lay-an-egg-and-then-eat-the-egg-or-suck-the-egg-something-egg/comment-page-1/#comment-3420</link>
		<dc:creator>heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2221#comment-3420</guid>
		<description>What an awesome thing to do as a GM, too... I know my husband (I might be biased, but he&#039;s still the best GM I&#039;ve ever had) often listens closely to table-chatter and alters or adds to his plots based on ideas the players/characters have. Not only does it give him an additional source of ideas, but when people find that a plot does indeed spin off of something they thought of, it tends to delight them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an awesome thing to do as a GM, too&#8230; I know my husband (I might be biased, but he&#8217;s still the best GM I&#8217;ve ever had) often listens closely to table-chatter and alters or adds to his plots based on ideas the players/characters have. Not only does it give him an additional source of ideas, but when people find that a plot does indeed spin off of something they thought of, it tends to delight them.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/17/you-must-make-the-reader-lay-an-egg-and-then-eat-the-egg-or-suck-the-egg-something-egg/comment-page-1/#comment-3417</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:52:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2221#comment-3417</guid>
		<description>Rob:

Let me know your thoughts on Finch? I have a copy coming to me based on Will&#039;s earlier review(s) of it.

But the more you leave out, the harder it is to &quot;stick the move,&quot; so to speak. (And this goes with your comment, Eddy.)

That&#039;s why I advocate broad, confident strokes on the part of the writer, with the reader only having to invest a portion of her mental effort to complete the picture, the story, the mystery, the character, what-have-you.

-- c.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob:</p>
<p>Let me know your thoughts on Finch? I have a copy coming to me based on Will&#8217;s earlier review(s) of it.</p>
<p>But the more you leave out, the harder it is to &#8220;stick the move,&#8221; so to speak. (And this goes with your comment, Eddy.)</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why I advocate broad, confident strokes on the part of the writer, with the reader only having to invest a portion of her mental effort to complete the picture, the story, the mystery, the character, what-have-you.</p>
<p>&#8211; c.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul DeLaurentis</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/17/you-must-make-the-reader-lay-an-egg-and-then-eat-the-egg-or-suck-the-egg-something-egg/comment-page-1/#comment-3414</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul DeLaurentis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2221#comment-3414</guid>
		<description>This is an awesome story...and thinking back to the authors I like, I can see why now.  Good read!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is an awesome story&#8230;and thinking back to the authors I like, I can see why now.  Good read!</p>
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		<title>By: Eddy Webb</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/17/you-must-make-the-reader-lay-an-egg-and-then-eat-the-egg-or-suck-the-egg-something-egg/comment-page-1/#comment-3411</link>
		<dc:creator>Eddy Webb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:50:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2221#comment-3411</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s leaving out the egg, and then there&#039;s forcing the reader to do everything from scratch. It&#039;s a tricky balance.

(Interesting, I see this time and again on Whitechapel. The readers root for Six and often vote with him in mind, but when I send the story on a horrible twist, the readers are still very excited. But then again, I think I have very self-aware readers who know that things have to get worse before they get better.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s leaving out the egg, and then there&#8217;s forcing the reader to do everything from scratch. It&#8217;s a tricky balance.</p>
<p>(Interesting, I see this time and again on Whitechapel. The readers root for Six and often vote with him in mind, but when I send the story on a horrible twist, the readers are still very excited. But then again, I think I have very self-aware readers who know that things have to get worse before they get better.)</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Donoghue</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/17/you-must-make-the-reader-lay-an-egg-and-then-eat-the-egg-or-suck-the-egg-something-egg/comment-page-1/#comment-3410</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Donoghue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2221#comment-3410</guid>
		<description>I just cracked open &quot;Finch&quot;, and it&#039;s a good example of what can go well and badly with this.  Within the first page or two, you&#039;re bombarded with unexplained ideas and terms and provided little or no context for them. Reference is made to external things which the character knows, but the reader does not.

The effect is to put the reader off balance, and that&#039;s intentional (I presume) because that herky-jerky uncertainty captures the feel of things like &quot;Dark City&quot;, where the uncertainty is a much a part of the setting as the weather. This can be a really good effect, but it&#039;s also a bit of a risk.  

The author is borrowing against the reader&#039;s future good will here, and it&#039;s not hard to repay too much (overwriting the gaps the reader has filled in himself, creating dissonance) or too little (Leaving things unanswered or creating a sense that the author is cheating).  All of which is to say, yes, it&#039;s a great trick, but it can be harder than it appears to implement.

-Rob D.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just cracked open &#8220;Finch&#8221;, and it&#8217;s a good example of what can go well and badly with this.  Within the first page or two, you&#8217;re bombarded with unexplained ideas and terms and provided little or no context for them. Reference is made to external things which the character knows, but the reader does not.</p>
<p>The effect is to put the reader off balance, and that&#8217;s intentional (I presume) because that herky-jerky uncertainty captures the feel of things like &#8220;Dark City&#8221;, where the uncertainty is a much a part of the setting as the weather. This can be a really good effect, but it&#8217;s also a bit of a risk.  </p>
<p>The author is borrowing against the reader&#8217;s future good will here, and it&#8217;s not hard to repay too much (overwriting the gaps the reader has filled in himself, creating dissonance) or too little (Leaving things unanswered or creating a sense that the author is cheating).  All of which is to say, yes, it&#8217;s a great trick, but it can be harder than it appears to implement.</p>
<p>-Rob D.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/17/you-must-make-the-reader-lay-an-egg-and-then-eat-the-egg-or-suck-the-egg-something-egg/comment-page-1/#comment-3409</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2221#comment-3409</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d say to a degree, yes, though it&#039;s likely you&#039;ll give context to the past in some way, thus &quot;re-adding&quot; the egg. 

All told, though, I think that&#039;s the best way to start a story (painting with a broad brush, I know) -- always start the story as late as you can. Relates back to my post many moons ago about why I hate origin stories.

-- c.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say to a degree, yes, though it&#8217;s likely you&#8217;ll give context to the past in some way, thus &#8220;re-adding&#8221; the egg. </p>
<p>All told, though, I think that&#8217;s the best way to start a story (painting with a broad brush, I know) &#8212; always start the story as late as you can. Relates back to my post many moons ago about why I hate origin stories.</p>
<p>&#8211; c.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/17/you-must-make-the-reader-lay-an-egg-and-then-eat-the-egg-or-suck-the-egg-something-egg/comment-page-1/#comment-3408</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2221#comment-3408</guid>
		<description>Would starting a particular tale &lt;em&gt;in medias res&lt;/em&gt; be a way of leaving out the egg?

&quot;Whoa, action on page one!  Who is this person?  How did they get here?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would starting a particular tale <em>in medias res</em> be a way of leaving out the egg?</p>
<p>&#8220;Whoa, action on page one!  Who is this person?  How did they get here?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/12/17/you-must-make-the-reader-lay-an-egg-and-then-eat-the-egg-or-suck-the-egg-something-egg/comment-page-1/#comment-3406</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=2221#comment-3406</guid>
		<description>Mark:

Lawds yes, that&#039;s a good way to do it.

I&#039;ll note that it&#039;s also a difficult way -- you really have to walk the right line if you&#039;re going to leave mysteries on the table. Do it right, it&#039;ll generate lots of conversation. Do it wrong (much easier!), and it&#039;ll generate lots of frustration.

I like mystery and uncertainty that persists, where I can bring my own imagination to the table -- but I like for it to set up most of the work for me, and leave me *just enough room* to generate answers based on the content and context already provided.

-- c.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark:</p>
<p>Lawds yes, that&#8217;s a good way to do it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll note that it&#8217;s also a difficult way &#8212; you really have to walk the right line if you&#8217;re going to leave mysteries on the table. Do it right, it&#8217;ll generate lots of conversation. Do it wrong (much easier!), and it&#8217;ll generate lots of frustration.</p>
<p>I like mystery and uncertainty that persists, where I can bring my own imagination to the table &#8212; but I like for it to set up most of the work for me, and leave me *just enough room* to generate answers based on the content and context already provided.</p>
<p>&#8211; c.</p>
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