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	<title>Comments on: Besmirchment Of The Free</title>
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	<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/10/01/besmirchment-of-the-free/</link>
	<description>Chuck Wendig: Freelance Penmonkey</description>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/10/01/besmirchment-of-the-free/comment-page-1/#comment-1529</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 21:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=1002#comment-1529</guid>
		<description>I like the use of the term, &quot;satisfying magpie urges.&quot;

Good stuff.

And welcome, Jagash! Thanks for commenting. Certainly more to think about. I&#039;d add more of my own thoughts, but right now the brain is mush, the throat is sore, the Sunday energies are sapping my will to do much at all.

-- c.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the use of the term, &#8220;satisfying magpie urges.&#8221;</p>
<p>Good stuff.</p>
<p>And welcome, Jagash! Thanks for commenting. Certainly more to think about. I&#8217;d add more of my own thoughts, but right now the brain is mush, the throat is sore, the Sunday energies are sapping my will to do much at all.</p>
<p>&#8211; c.</p>
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		<title>By: Jagash</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/10/01/besmirchment-of-the-free/comment-page-1/#comment-1527</link>
		<dc:creator>Jagash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 21:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=1002#comment-1527</guid>
		<description>I will age to agree with Christian that the &quot;free = worthless&quot; view is still around.  I am cynically looking at my own habits; I have collected a dozen free RPG&#039;s in PDF and haven&#039;t gotten myself to even really open the files.  For me they are something I collected rather then something of value which I purchased.  At the same time, I might not have put down my money for those systems.   By contrast, I have read almost all of the bundled pdf&#039;s from the Wicked Dead Brewing company which I bought on sale for $5 for the collection I think.  

Ideal distribution of a product depends on two different elements in my mind. 

1) Acquiring: Use marketing, free products or your reputation to convince customers to acquire the product.
2) Encouraging: Getting the customer to read and use the product.  A price paid for the product, demos or reviews can do this.  

Step 1 is easy, anyone can make things free.  Problem is that free products that don&#039;t have support in step 2 wind up simply satisfying magpie urges.   A freemium model seems to allow for satisfying both options.  Another idea that someone might try (possibly myself) is to have a instant pdf that costs money (5$ perhaps) with an option to get it for free but you need to wait for it (perhaps a month.)  That might satisfy without having the price as a barrier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will age to agree with Christian that the &#8220;free = worthless&#8221; view is still around.  I am cynically looking at my own habits; I have collected a dozen free RPG&#8217;s in PDF and haven&#8217;t gotten myself to even really open the files.  For me they are something I collected rather then something of value which I purchased.  At the same time, I might not have put down my money for those systems.   By contrast, I have read almost all of the bundled pdf&#8217;s from the Wicked Dead Brewing company which I bought on sale for $5 for the collection I think.  </p>
<p>Ideal distribution of a product depends on two different elements in my mind. </p>
<p>1) Acquiring: Use marketing, free products or your reputation to convince customers to acquire the product.<br />
2) Encouraging: Getting the customer to read and use the product.  A price paid for the product, demos or reviews can do this.  </p>
<p>Step 1 is easy, anyone can make things free.  Problem is that free products that don&#8217;t have support in step 2 wind up simply satisfying magpie urges.   A freemium model seems to allow for satisfying both options.  Another idea that someone might try (possibly myself) is to have a instant pdf that costs money (5$ perhaps) with an option to get it for free but you need to wait for it (perhaps a month.)  That might satisfy without having the price as a barrier.</p>
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		<title>By: TERRIBLEMINDS: Chuck Wendig, Freelance Penmonkey &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Painting With Shotguns V</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/10/01/besmirchment-of-the-free/comment-page-1/#comment-1485</link>
		<dc:creator>TERRIBLEMINDS: Chuck Wendig, Freelance Penmonkey &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Painting With Shotguns V</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 12:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=1002#comment-1485</guid>
		<description>[...] noted, I&#8217;m looking for an agent, Also as noted, I was looking to maybe release my recent novel for free and build audience. The first is true, the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] noted, I&#8217;m looking for an agent, Also as noted, I was looking to maybe release my recent novel for free and build audience. The first is true, the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Zawadzki</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/10/01/besmirchment-of-the-free/comment-page-1/#comment-1483</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Zawadzki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 05:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=1002#comment-1483</guid>
		<description>I feel for you 100%. The irritation with 3-6 month response times, the submissions that disappear into the ether, the seemingly interested agents who suddenly stop responding to your emails, and did I mention the irritation of waiting 3-6 months for a reply? And once you get past queries and send a manuscript, you&#039;re expected to be 100% faithful to whomever is reading it - even if they take 3, 6, or 9 months to reply.

Intellectually, I know why it&#039;s almost impossible to communicate with an editor by any method that doesn&#039;t require a stamp. I know they&#039;re busy and that they have to sift through thousands and thousands of submissions every year, so I can completely understand why they might be difficult to impress.

But I can&#039;t express how much I wish getting acceptance/rejection for a book were more like, well, applying for a loan online. Type in your information, and BAM - approval in 60 seconds! Yes, even if I submit the application at 3 in the morning.

Unfortunately, that&#039;s not the way it works. I&#039;ve been really bad about marketing my writing because by the time I get the rejection letters I&#039;ve already waded deep into another project and don&#039;t feel like doing boring research again. Writing is fun. Selling it, less so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel for you 100%. The irritation with 3-6 month response times, the submissions that disappear into the ether, the seemingly interested agents who suddenly stop responding to your emails, and did I mention the irritation of waiting 3-6 months for a reply? And once you get past queries and send a manuscript, you&#8217;re expected to be 100% faithful to whomever is reading it &#8211; even if they take 3, 6, or 9 months to reply.</p>
<p>Intellectually, I know why it&#8217;s almost impossible to communicate with an editor by any method that doesn&#8217;t require a stamp. I know they&#8217;re busy and that they have to sift through thousands and thousands of submissions every year, so I can completely understand why they might be difficult to impress.</p>
<p>But I can&#8217;t express how much I wish getting acceptance/rejection for a book were more like, well, applying for a loan online. Type in your information, and BAM &#8211; approval in 60 seconds! Yes, even if I submit the application at 3 in the morning.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, that&#8217;s not the way it works. I&#8217;ve been really bad about marketing my writing because by the time I get the rejection letters I&#8217;ve already waded deep into another project and don&#8217;t feel like doing boring research again. Writing is fun. Selling it, less so.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Stolze</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/10/01/besmirchment-of-the-free/comment-page-1/#comment-1482</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Stolze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 22:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=1002#comment-1482</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a question to consider: Would you rather make, I dunno, $12,000 off of 24,000 readers who bought a book through mainstream publication and brick and mortar stores?  Or would you rather make that same $12,000 off a thousand readers who paid you directly through some internet setup?  It&#039;s the same money.  It&#039;s less fame.  But it&#039;s more hoops.  

I really hope that an agent could come along and take away all the yucky shucking and jiving and &quot;no-date-on-Saturday-night&quot; desperation that comes with trying to sell fiction for money.  I really hope that getting an agent in the current publishing climate would NOT AT ALL be like hiring an interior decorator when your house is on fire.  

Hope dies last.

-G.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a question to consider: Would you rather make, I dunno, $12,000 off of 24,000 readers who bought a book through mainstream publication and brick and mortar stores?  Or would you rather make that same $12,000 off a thousand readers who paid you directly through some internet setup?  It&#8217;s the same money.  It&#8217;s less fame.  But it&#8217;s more hoops.  </p>
<p>I really hope that an agent could come along and take away all the yucky shucking and jiving and &#8220;no-date-on-Saturday-night&#8221; desperation that comes with trying to sell fiction for money.  I really hope that getting an agent in the current publishing climate would NOT AT ALL be like hiring an interior decorator when your house is on fire.  </p>
<p>Hope dies last.</p>
<p>-G.</p>
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		<title>By: David Hill</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/10/01/besmirchment-of-the-free/comment-page-1/#comment-1480</link>
		<dc:creator>David Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 19:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=1002#comment-1480</guid>
		<description>From the way I see it, a lot of agents will be spooked by the idea of an author who has released material online. A lot of agents and publishers have a very old-school mentality, because for them, a conservative viewpoint is business fact. 

That having been said, I doubt those are the agents for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the way I see it, a lot of agents will be spooked by the idea of an author who has released material online. A lot of agents and publishers have a very old-school mentality, because for them, a conservative viewpoint is business fact. </p>
<p>That having been said, I doubt those are the agents for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/10/01/besmirchment-of-the-free/comment-page-1/#comment-1479</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 19:38:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=1002#comment-1479</guid>
		<description>Oh, and there are several posts on Free and Freemium publishing worth reading over at Guy LeCharles Gonzalez&#039;s blog, &lt;a href=&quot;http://loudpoet.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Loud Poet&lt;/a&gt;. Lots of good reads over there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and there are several posts on Free and Freemium publishing worth reading over at Guy LeCharles Gonzalez&#8217;s blog, <a href="http://loudpoet.com/" rel="nofollow">Loud Poet</a>. Lots of good reads over there.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/10/01/besmirchment-of-the-free/comment-page-1/#comment-1478</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 19:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=1002#comment-1478</guid>
		<description>To clarify real quickly -- I&#039;m no longer planning on releasing this online, for free. I&#039;m going to let it do the circuit, see what happens.

That being said, I also don&#039;t see evidence yet that any of the doom-and-gloom-free-is-death fear holds water. It may. It probably does. It makes sense that it could be an issue. But I&#039;m hoping to see quotes or commentary rather than pure speculation.

Will: as for a first novel being a loss leader if released online, that&#039;s perhaps true, yeah. But most first novels seem to be loss leaders, these days. 

-- c.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To clarify real quickly &#8212; I&#8217;m no longer planning on releasing this online, for free. I&#8217;m going to let it do the circuit, see what happens.</p>
<p>That being said, I also don&#8217;t see evidence yet that any of the doom-and-gloom-free-is-death fear holds water. It may. It probably does. It makes sense that it could be an issue. But I&#8217;m hoping to see quotes or commentary rather than pure speculation.</p>
<p>Will: as for a first novel being a loss leader if released online, that&#8217;s perhaps true, yeah. But most first novels seem to be loss leaders, these days. </p>
<p>&#8211; c.</p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/10/01/besmirchment-of-the-free/comment-page-1/#comment-1477</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 19:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=1002#comment-1477</guid>
		<description>Your first novel may be a loss leader if released online.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your first novel may be a loss leader if released online.</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2009/10/01/besmirchment-of-the-free/comment-page-1/#comment-1476</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Oct 2009 18:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://terribleminds.com/ramble/?p=1002#comment-1476</guid>
		<description>The draft I&#039;ve got, I have no interest in self-publishing. Not that I don&#039;t consider that a viable path -- it&#039;s just not the path I see. (Of course, in this I personally differentiate &quot;free on web&quot; and &quot;self-published.&quot;) 

Far as agents and publishers not being interested in free, is there evidence? I don&#039;t mean to suggest I don&#039;t believe you peeps. I do. I really do. But I&#039;m looking for quotes, links, sites, that say this.

-- c.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The draft I&#8217;ve got, I have no interest in self-publishing. Not that I don&#8217;t consider that a viable path &#8212; it&#8217;s just not the path I see. (Of course, in this I personally differentiate &#8220;free on web&#8221; and &#8220;self-published.&#8221;) </p>
<p>Far as agents and publishers not being interested in free, is there evidence? I don&#8217;t mean to suggest I don&#8217;t believe you peeps. I do. I really do. But I&#8217;m looking for quotes, links, sites, that say this.</p>
<p>&#8211; c.</p>
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